So are shields ever going to be SP/MGKA based instead of only MGKA?

Lokey0024 · November 2019

All raw stat is king for light because of this. Open up some diversity. Good sets with utility are collecting dust because.

tsaescishoeshiner · November 2019

No one knows whether this will be implemented in the future. If you're making a suggestion, more info/reasoning might help

I think it does contribute to build diversity since it makes a difference between speccing into magicka versus spell damage. It's all capped based on max health now, too, adding a further decision point

edit: a spelling

Galarthor · November 2019

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

No one knows whether this will be implemented in the future. If you're making a suggestion, more info/reasoning might help

I think it does contribute to build diversity since it makes a difference between speccing into magicka versus spell damage. It's all capped base on max health, now too, adding a further decision point

Not really.

In PvE nobody really cared about maximizing max magicka as spell damage is so much more potent. a set bonus of spell damage is 24% stronger than an equivalent set bonus of magicka - 48% if you factor in Major Sorcery for which there is no Max Magicka equivalent. And as PvE is all about maximizing DPS mag builds go with spell damage and make do with what they have in terms of max magicka and shield strength. So no build diversity here.

In PvP shield using magicka builds basically have to stack as much max magicka as possible despite it being 24% / 48% weaker, b/c otherwise you will be far too squishy. So again, no build diversity here.

OG_Kaveman · November 2019

Literally only 2 wards scale with max magic, conjured ward and annulment. All the rest either use health, or use spell damage too.

a set bonus of spell damage is 24% stronger than an equivalent set bonus of magicka - 48% if you factor in Major Sorcery for which there is no Max Magicka equivalenr

You get 20% from champion points. That's your major Sorcery and then you get 10% from warhorn, that's your minor sorcery.

Bobby_V_Rockit · November 2019

Since they cap at 50% of health anyways prolly not much point. My shields are max strength with only 34k magicka

ExistingRug61 · November 2019

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

a set bonus of spell damage is 24% stronger than an equivalent set bonus of magicka - 48% if you factor in Major Sorcery for which there is no Max Magicka equivalenr

You get 20% from champion points. That's your major Sorcery and then you get 10% from warhorn, that's your minor sorcery.

While this is true, there are still more % amplifiers for spell/weapon damage available (sorcery/brutality, many class passives, fighters guild, continuous attack) than there are for magicka/stamina (basically just CP, warhorn, mages guild, undaunted and a class passive or skill if you are NB/sorc).
An example is the recent stamNB build posted which has something like +74% weapon damage. Stat % amps can't get close to that.
Which is in addition to the fact that set bonuses are stronger for damage vs stat (129 vs 1096/10.5).

Or just look at what players actually do. For stamina, all skills scale off weapon damage and stamina so in theory they could choose to stack either to get damage/healing. But what happens? Bascially all stamina builds stack weapon damage, not stamina, because they get more that way. If the benefit of stacking stamina was equal to weapon damage, some players would do that. But its not so they don't.

That said, I actually like that some skills scale differently, for the following reason.

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I think it does contribute to build diversity since it makes a difference between speccing into magicka versus spell damage. It's all capped base on max health, now too, adding a further decision point

In fact I actually wouldn't mind if there were other skills that scaled purely off max stat or alternatively only off damage as a way to force more choice in builds, which at the moment is something almost unique to magSorc (and to a lesser extent some other mag builds).

Could be something like (as an example):
All weapon abilities: damage and/or healing scale only with weapon/spell damage
Non weapon (class/guild/world etc) abilities: damage scales with weapon/spell damage and magicka/stamina (as current), heals, shields, pets all scale only with magicka/stamina.

This would separate out the ability for builds to simultaneously be very strong damages and healers as they would have to choose to go damage or stat based on which abilities they use and what they want to do. It would be harder to "have it all" by simply stacking damage.

That said I doubt it will change (either way) as the current scaling system is fairly ingrained into the game and players are used to it and any change to it would be a major change to builds which would cause a lot of build redesign which players don't often like.

OG_Kaveman · November 2019

@ExistingRug61 I am not talking about weapon damage. Of course Stam has way more percentage amps to weapon damage. The only other precent spell damage amps outside of the major minor buffs is the sorc passive, Expert Mage and even then, is only 2% per.

This page- https://tabatta.eu/summerset-infused-arcane-robust/ does a great job explaining the jewelry side of things but for set bonuses, it is a different story because they are 1096 and jewelry traits are only 870. So we are effectively comparing 1,567 magic to 167 spell damage in a group. Or 149 spell damage to 167 spell damage, for most classes, because most skills are close to a 10.5 to 1 ratio as you pointed out. That is only a 10% difference

My point from my post before is that you said the there was no "major Sorcery" analog when it come to max stats, there is, champion points. Simple as that.

And your idea about having different skills scale differently, that was already tried in the game, for the first few months, all weapon skills scaled with weapon damage, even resto and drestro skills. Only class skills used spell damage. Made no sense then. Makes no sense now to try that. It just needlessly complicated the game.

tsaescishoeshiner · November 2019

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

That said, I actually like that some skills scale differently, for the following reason.

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I think it does contribute to build diversity since it makes a difference between speccing into magicka versus spell damage. It's all capped base on max health, now too, adding a further decision point

In fact I actually wouldn't mind if there were other skills that scaled purely off max stat or alternatively only off damage as a way to force more choice in builds, which at the moment is something almost unique to magSorc (and to a lesser extent some other mag builds).

Shields also don't benefit from Spell/Weapon Critical, while healing skills do, and healing sets don't. These are all part of interesting build decisions. I'm not saying they're perfect

I'm not sure if I would want a more complicated web of skills scaling with different stats, tho. Instead, I think more access to different kinds of stat modifiers would be cool. I run a high max-mag build on my nightblade since CP, class 8% passive, undaunted, and inner light let you rack up a high max magicka multiplier that doesn't depend on procs and lets you forget about sustain for a while. Northern Storm (warden ult) used to also have this feature.

It seems like they're cracking down on skills that are ONLY slotted for their passives tho ...

Fiewiel · November 2019

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Just saw dragonhold update.

ExistingRug61 · November 2019

@OG_Kaveman I think we are arguing different things.
I wasn't the one saying there was no equivalent, that was a previous poster. I agree that the difference is not as drastic as the previous poster had stated.
(Although I draw the equivalence a bit different to you as instead of instead of considering CP the equivalent major sorcery/brutality, I view CP as making up the difference between the set bonuses as 1096/10.5*1.2 =125 which is very close to 129. End result is the same as your equivalence though.)

What I was trying to say was that even with all the modifiers, stacking damage is still better, even for magicka (as described in your link, agreed it does a good job covering it for solo and group PvE). I guess I just consider the ~8-14% difference to be significant.

And that is the best case for stats as well (PvE).

In PvP in my experience I find it is generally further skewed towards being better to stack damage, due to
- warhorn is generally not present whereas you occasionally get the minor buff from group or yourself depending on class.
- if in cyrodiil then continuous attack is another +10% damage, which can be up basically all the time.
- if in battlegrounds or no cp cyrodiil then you don't have the 20% stat bonus from cp.
Result is that stacking damage might be a somewhere between 20-40% better than stacking stats, which I consider a large difference.

Regarding changing scaling like I said its not something I think would change, I just find the build design choice that magicka shield users have to make to be interesting and wouldn't mind if other builds had to make similar design choices.