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How to Siege
maddiniiLuna
✭✭✭✭
A small explanation on how to set sieges correctly, what the different sieges do and some example tactics for siege placements. Starting off with the descriptions:
Coldfire Sieges
The Coldfire Ballista does the same thing as a fire Ballista, but deals increased flame damage and increased DoT (Damage over Time). Coldfire Tribok does the same as a Fire Tribok, but will have increased damage. The Cold Stone Tribok stands out a bit. It does more damage to enemy sieges then the ordinary stone Tribok, but the same damage to structures. It has the highest damage against enemy players. Coldfire Sieges can be a rare reward at the end of the campaign and can also be obtained by doing Dolmens in Cyrodiil (also a very rare drop).
Stone Tribok
It has a huge range allowing you to siege walls or gates from a distance, without being hit by enemy defensive sieges. It takes a long time before it's ready again, but does does the most damage to enemy structures. The primary use is to siege castle walls. When used at wooden gates it really just steals away space for the small ballistas that would be more effective at gates. The "Cold Stone Tribok" does the same thing, but not to be confused with the "Cold Fire Tribok", which is basically a fire Tribok.
Fire Tribok
As with all Triboks it has a huge range. The primary use is to support your ballistas by attacking the defensive sieges. It deals less damage to gates and walls, so it is a waste of space if you siege only the gate or wall with it. This is to be fired at your opponent to slow them down in their defense or offence.
Ice Tribok
Very usefully against large groups (Ball groups), as it slows them down and deals damage. It is as good as never used, but still a great siege. Primarily used as defensive weapon to slow enemy movement down.
The Ram
This is your primary weapon, when attacking enemy gates. It requires 3 people to function and each person will increase the damage dealt by this - up to 6 people. When using the Ram 4 people can also use ballistas at the same time, while the other 2 are responsible for taking incoming damage and healing / siege shield. If the enemy has oil up and you are standing at the ram with no siege shield you will very quickly die.
Normal Ballista
Primarily used to attack gates and walls. It deals more damage then any other ballista to structures, but less damage to people. Everybody should have this in their inventory when attacking a castle.
Lightning Ballista
Draining the Magicka of people. To good to not be used. When you see an enemy group at your gate with a siege shield, shoot the lightning ballista at the group and the healers will quickly have no magicka to heal trough the incoming damage. Against ball groups it's okay, but the healers in those groups usually have enemies around that they can heavy attack - so unless you place more then 1 it won't have a huge impact on ball groups. Still helpfully if you use it.
Fire Ballista
Mainly a defensive siege made for aiming at people and siege weapons. It will burn enemy siege weapons and people and deal a lot of damage, which can potentially win the defense for you. Shooting this at walls is possible, but it will deal less damage then a normal ballista so just keep that in mind, if you stealing a spot.
Stone, Oil & Flesh Catapult
These 3 catapults are all meant to be shot at people and people only. If you shoot this at a wall it will do absolutely nothing. If you combine all 3 at a gate for defensive purposes the chance of any enemy getting in is extremely low. Stone catapult increase their damage taken by 20%, the Oil catapult slows them down and the flesh catapult will poison them while they take more damage and are slowed down. This will stop almost any ball group coming trough the gate, if you manage to hit all 3 on them. In small outposts you can only safely position 2 of these (you can fit more on the sides, but will be exposed) - my personal recommendation is 1 stone and 1 oil catapult, as you usually have fighters and oil to deal some damage.
NEW Lancers
Lancers are the new Siege weapons from the Greymoor chapter. They are obtainable trough the archaeology system. The lead can be found from the conquest PvP Missions (directly next to the tent - Picture 1). It is not a guaranteed drop, you will have to do this mission a couple of times. It can be shared by group members, so you can do it more then once per day. Once you have found the lead, you can go to the zone it is located in (this will not be Cyrodiil) and dig it out. You will need to learn archaeology for this.
There is 3 different types of Lancers: Frost, Fire and Shock. Each one has a guaranteed chance of afflicting a status effect to an enemy player.
At the time of posting this, the view from the Lancer seems bug or simply awfully. Some people might have noticed, that you just can not see anything, when you place this on top of a wall. I have found a great addon called "Siege Camera Toggle", that can help with this problem, by giving an alternative view for the siege weapon, as seen in Video 2.
*There is currently no preview available at the training parkour seen in Video 1, but it might be added to there at a later point of time. The one you see there was placed by me.
- Images
- Videos
Price Table
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How to NOT siege
Before showing some examples i'd like to show you something which i see on a daily basis. I call it the "braindead cheese". The example: A group attacks a castle (any castle) and encounters a huge defensive siege. They can not break free. One person is yelling in chat /y OPEN NEW BREACH!. So 20 people turn their sieges and siege the wall on the side of the gate. This is what botheres me. If you can turn your sieges, then so can the enemy. There is no point in opening a new breach DIRECTLY next to the other breach, as the entire force will also be there and they won't even have to move their sieges, they can just turn them.
Where to NOT place sieges
This one has the potential to save you a lot of anger and frustration, because it actually happened to me more then once. I just didn't think about it. Now i have learned from previous mistakes. What do i mean? There is certain castle "Addons" (shown in the images below) that appear, once you have taken the resources (Lumber, Farm, Mines or only Mines to be more precise). They are there to allow you to place more sieges, so the theory. Unfortunately they are very dangerous and can get you and your siege weapon killed. The reason: When you place your siege weapon on these Addons during a siege defense and somebody of the enemy team captures the Mines - the entire section will just disappear. You fall off and your siege weapon vanishes into oblivion (bye bye Frost lancer
) If the siege weapon would be automatically put in my inventory, i would definitely use those areas, but not when it has the potential of me loosing my siege weapon at any moment.
How to ram
I know what you are thinking here: I know how to place a stupid ram! I'm telling you: You are wrong! 99% of the people will run to a gate and place a ram, which is correct, right? Wrong. When you place a ram you can only put 3 ballistas around, thus limiting your effectiveness. What you got to do is put one ballista right in the middle and then a ram on top of that. In Picture 1 you can see how to NOT do it. Picture 2 and 3 show correct examples on an effective siege. You really want as many people as possible to be actively doing something, if you are going for the quick ram. The longer it takes you to break the main gate, the more time the enemy has to respond with defensive sieges.
How to Oil
Starting off with the most common mistake. Oils on Porches. Often people will put them on the side, as much as they can, but this is not good. As shown in Picture 1 you will not have enough space for 2 oils next to each other, if you place it right at the edge. What you should do is place them as much centered as possible as shown in Picture 2. Your oil will still hit the ground, so don't worry about it landing where it's not supposed to be.
Another common mistake is to place oils all around. I didn't prepare an example for this, as it's quite obvious in the other pictures. When you place oils on the circle you basically hit only the middle, while ballistas that are placed on the corner can hit the entire outer circle. So you should be placing oils at the whole on the top (Picture 3) and the outer porches, but not on the corners, where the ballistas should be (Picture 4). You can also place Oils at the very corners that lead inside the keep (Picture 5) and on the stairs (Picture 6).
How to wall siege
The next example shows a very basic way of attacking the wall. You'll have normal ballistas at the front that (hopefully) will all attack the same wall and the fire triboks at the back, that will provide fire support for your ballistas. In this example you'd hopefully have somebody with a siege shield up at the ballistas, as they are more likely to be hit from any defensive sieges. The most common mistake is to stack all kinds of ballistas that all siege a different wall. Your siege weapons will quickly be destroyed without any support fire and you might even loose the siege due to this. Use triboks!
Inner defensive sieges
This one is tricky and easy at the same time. What you want to do is have at least one of each type of catapults phasing the door. This is often quite hard due to obstacles, but if you have the stone in the middle and the other 2 at the sides it usually works. Picture 1 is an example of a keep with defensive sieges. In outposts you can only fit 2 without exposing yourself, but you can fit more on the sides if you really wanted to. It is important, that you fit the catapult as close to the stairs as possible, so you have space for ballistas behind you. You can ruin a defense, if you place it too far back.
Prepare inner walls
The last 2 pictures show setups of formations that allow you to siege both the outer and the inner wall at the same time. The primary use it to quickly open a passage at the sides, for example if the main gate can not be passed or is currently too dangerous to siege. It's a very risky setup, but might be usefully to you.
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Other Tipps
@NordSwordnBoard
@Ourorboros
@mague
@Joy_Division
@FrancisCrawford
For the Ballistas it's different. You can repair a ballista almost one time between the shots (you do loose a bit of time, because the repair takes slightly longer then the reload). However i feel like it does make sense to do this during a defensive siege, as you are often in a relatively safe position. When attacking, it depends on the situation if i bother to re-pack or not. For example a heavy defended castle - i might just leave it and move on or if everybody is focused on one area i'll re-pack it, as i know i won't be targeted because the focus is on the main gate for example. On an empty castle i almost always pack it, as long as it has over 25% durability. I never bother to repair normal ballistas, i only repair the expensive ones, but that is personal preference. If you don't want to spend to much AP in buying new ones, you can pack them and just repair later.
The new Lancers can be repaired once between each shot (just about) and since you never really need them in offensive sieges, i'm doing this a lot - as long as it has above 70% "health" remaining.
And the best Tipp of
@Delsskia
If you have any suggestions or more examples feel free to post them here.
Edited by maddiniiLuna on June 28, 2020 10:08PM - Normal Ballista : Deals more damage to walls & gates
- Fire Ballista : Deals damage to structures and burns people
- Lightning Ballista : Drains Magicka and slows people down
- Flesh Catapult : Deals Damage over Time on people
- Oil Catapult : Drains Stamina and slows people down
- Stone Catapult : Deals damage in a huge radius & increases the damage taken by affected players
- Stone Tribok : Deals more damage to walls & gates
- Fire Tribok : Deals damage to structures and burns people
- Ice Tribok : Deals damage and slows people down
- The Ram : Deals increased damage to gates only
- Coldfire Sieges : Same as other sieges, but deal significantly more damage
- NEW Lancers : Lancers shoot multiple arrows at once, inflicting shock, fire or frost damage at each hit
Coldfire Sieges
The Coldfire Ballista does the same thing as a fire Ballista, but deals increased flame damage and increased DoT (Damage over Time). Coldfire Tribok does the same as a Fire Tribok, but will have increased damage. The Cold Stone Tribok stands out a bit. It does more damage to enemy sieges then the ordinary stone Tribok, but the same damage to structures. It has the highest damage against enemy players. Coldfire Sieges can be a rare reward at the end of the campaign and can also be obtained by doing Dolmens in Cyrodiil (also a very rare drop).
Stone Tribok
It has a huge range allowing you to siege walls or gates from a distance, without being hit by enemy defensive sieges. It takes a long time before it's ready again, but does does the most damage to enemy structures. The primary use is to siege castle walls. When used at wooden gates it really just steals away space for the small ballistas that would be more effective at gates. The "Cold Stone Tribok" does the same thing, but not to be confused with the "Cold Fire Tribok", which is basically a fire Tribok.
Fire Tribok
As with all Triboks it has a huge range. The primary use is to support your ballistas by attacking the defensive sieges. It deals less damage to gates and walls, so it is a waste of space if you siege only the gate or wall with it. This is to be fired at your opponent to slow them down in their defense or offence.
Ice Tribok
Very usefully against large groups (Ball groups), as it slows them down and deals damage. It is as good as never used, but still a great siege. Primarily used as defensive weapon to slow enemy movement down.
The Ram
This is your primary weapon, when attacking enemy gates. It requires 3 people to function and each person will increase the damage dealt by this - up to 6 people. When using the Ram 4 people can also use ballistas at the same time, while the other 2 are responsible for taking incoming damage and healing / siege shield. If the enemy has oil up and you are standing at the ram with no siege shield you will very quickly die.
Normal Ballista
Primarily used to attack gates and walls. It deals more damage then any other ballista to structures, but less damage to people. Everybody should have this in their inventory when attacking a castle.
Lightning Ballista
Draining the Magicka of people. To good to not be used. When you see an enemy group at your gate with a siege shield, shoot the lightning ballista at the group and the healers will quickly have no magicka to heal trough the incoming damage. Against ball groups it's okay, but the healers in those groups usually have enemies around that they can heavy attack - so unless you place more then 1 it won't have a huge impact on ball groups. Still helpfully if you use it.
Fire Ballista
Mainly a defensive siege made for aiming at people and siege weapons. It will burn enemy siege weapons and people and deal a lot of damage, which can potentially win the defense for you. Shooting this at walls is possible, but it will deal less damage then a normal ballista so just keep that in mind, if you stealing a spot.
Stone, Oil & Flesh Catapult
These 3 catapults are all meant to be shot at people and people only. If you shoot this at a wall it will do absolutely nothing. If you combine all 3 at a gate for defensive purposes the chance of any enemy getting in is extremely low. Stone catapult increase their damage taken by 20%, the Oil catapult slows them down and the flesh catapult will poison them while they take more damage and are slowed down. This will stop almost any ball group coming trough the gate, if you manage to hit all 3 on them. In small outposts you can only safely position 2 of these (you can fit more on the sides, but will be exposed) - my personal recommendation is 1 stone and 1 oil catapult, as you usually have fighters and oil to deal some damage.
NEW Lancers
Lancers are the new Siege weapons from the Greymoor chapter. They are obtainable trough the archaeology system. The lead can be found from the conquest PvP Missions (directly next to the tent - Picture 1). It is not a guaranteed drop, you will have to do this mission a couple of times. It can be shared by group members, so you can do it more then once per day. Once you have found the lead, you can go to the zone it is located in (this will not be Cyrodiil) and dig it out. You will need to learn archaeology for this.
There is 3 different types of Lancers: Frost, Fire and Shock. Each one has a guaranteed chance of afflicting a status effect to an enemy player.
- Frost - Chilled effect (small damage over time + slow)
- Fire - Burning effect (damage over time)
- Shock - Drains magicka, applies concussion (off balance) effect
At the time of posting this, the view from the Lancer seems bug or simply awfully. Some people might have noticed, that you just can not see anything, when you place this on top of a wall. I have found a great addon called "Siege Camera Toggle", that can help with this problem, by giving an alternative view for the siege weapon, as seen in Video 2.
*There is currently no preview available at the training parkour seen in Video 1, but it might be added to there at a later point of time. The one you see there was placed by me.
- Images
- Videos
https://youtu.be/nHJyvYJNd7A
https://youtu.be/MhmT-GwQbvUPrice Table
- Stona Ballista - 1800 AP
- Lightning Ballista - 1200 AP
- Fire Ballista - 1200 AP
- All Catapults - 1200 AP
- All Triboks - 1800 AP
- Ram - 1800 AP
- Oil - 800 AP
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How to NOT siege
Before showing some examples i'd like to show you something which i see on a daily basis. I call it the "braindead cheese". The example: A group attacks a castle (any castle) and encounters a huge defensive siege. They can not break free. One person is yelling in chat /y OPEN NEW BREACH!. So 20 people turn their sieges and siege the wall on the side of the gate. This is what botheres me. If you can turn your sieges, then so can the enemy. There is no point in opening a new breach DIRECTLY next to the other breach, as the entire force will also be there and they won't even have to move their sieges, they can just turn them.
Where to NOT place sieges
This one has the potential to save you a lot of anger and frustration, because it actually happened to me more then once. I just didn't think about it. Now i have learned from previous mistakes. What do i mean? There is certain castle "Addons" (shown in the images below) that appear, once you have taken the resources (Lumber, Farm, Mines or only Mines to be more precise). They are there to allow you to place more sieges, so the theory. Unfortunately they are very dangerous and can get you and your siege weapon killed. The reason: When you place your siege weapon on these Addons during a siege defense and somebody of the enemy team captures the Mines - the entire section will just disappear. You fall off and your siege weapon vanishes into oblivion (bye bye Frost lancer
) If the siege weapon would be automatically put in my inventory, i would definitely use those areas, but not when it has the potential of me loosing my siege weapon at any moment.
How to ram
I know what you are thinking here: I know how to place a stupid ram! I'm telling you: You are wrong! 99% of the people will run to a gate and place a ram, which is correct, right? Wrong. When you place a ram you can only put 3 ballistas around, thus limiting your effectiveness. What you got to do is put one ballista right in the middle and then a ram on top of that. In Picture 1 you can see how to NOT do it. Picture 2 and 3 show correct examples on an effective siege. You really want as many people as possible to be actively doing something, if you are going for the quick ram. The longer it takes you to break the main gate, the more time the enemy has to respond with defensive sieges.
How to Oil
Starting off with the most common mistake. Oils on Porches. Often people will put them on the side, as much as they can, but this is not good. As shown in Picture 1 you will not have enough space for 2 oils next to each other, if you place it right at the edge. What you should do is place them as much centered as possible as shown in Picture 2. Your oil will still hit the ground, so don't worry about it landing where it's not supposed to be.
Another common mistake is to place oils all around. I didn't prepare an example for this, as it's quite obvious in the other pictures. When you place oils on the circle you basically hit only the middle, while ballistas that are placed on the corner can hit the entire outer circle. So you should be placing oils at the whole on the top (Picture 3) and the outer porches, but not on the corners, where the ballistas should be (Picture 4). You can also place Oils at the very corners that lead inside the keep (Picture 5) and on the stairs (Picture 6).
How to wall siege
The next example shows a very basic way of attacking the wall. You'll have normal ballistas at the front that (hopefully) will all attack the same wall and the fire triboks at the back, that will provide fire support for your ballistas. In this example you'd hopefully have somebody with a siege shield up at the ballistas, as they are more likely to be hit from any defensive sieges. The most common mistake is to stack all kinds of ballistas that all siege a different wall. Your siege weapons will quickly be destroyed without any support fire and you might even loose the siege due to this. Use triboks!
Inner defensive sieges
This one is tricky and easy at the same time. What you want to do is have at least one of each type of catapults phasing the door. This is often quite hard due to obstacles, but if you have the stone in the middle and the other 2 at the sides it usually works. Picture 1 is an example of a keep with defensive sieges. In outposts you can only fit 2 without exposing yourself, but you can fit more on the sides if you really wanted to. It is important, that you fit the catapult as close to the stairs as possible, so you have space for ballistas behind you. You can ruin a defense, if you place it too far back.
Prepare inner walls
The last 2 pictures show setups of formations that allow you to siege both the outer and the inner wall at the same time. The primary use it to quickly open a passage at the sides, for example if the main gate can not be passed or is currently too dangerous to siege. It's a very risky setup, but might be usefully to you.
######################################
######################################
######################################
Other Tipps
@NordSwordnBoard
The occupancy of siege flows out from the door or main line for a wall. Don't take siege being used near the door if you didn't put it down. However if you see siege being laid out and not used by the planter make use of it. It's easier to spot when its just 3 people taking an outpost - a typical player can only use about 4-5 ballistae on cooldown in a diamond type pattern - so when you see me put down 8 siege I want others to use them. We don't get much out of our time on a failed attack. Coldfire isn't shared so freely with others, be apprehensive with that.
@Ourorboros
Keep trebuchet off porch so more ballista can be placed.
Place ballista adjacent to porch columns, so two can be placed. One between columns is one less ballista.
Postern doors take no damage-hit stairs or wall around posterns.
Kill NPC asap, especially mages who heal or cast negates.
Don't attack resources before the keep. It's a red flag to your presence and gives enemy time to set up defense.
@mague
If you are a healer you should have one of those slotted. Wherever siege weapons come in the shield should be up.
@Joy_Division
- If the enemy is about to break down a side postern, remove your fire ballista off the oil lips - which isn't really doing anything - so oil can go there which actually has a chance to defend said postern.
- If you insist on trying to countersiege on the top floor on an inner castle, please slot and use skills so you won't die in the hail of enemy meatbags and fire trebs raining down on you. It's hard to rez you and if I'm doing that, I'm not defending the castle.
- If you see what you think is an unattended siege weapon, 9 times out of 10, it is very attended by a person who just temporarily gets off of it because they don;t like standing in stupid. If you are still convinced it isn't being used, then loose one shot/pour and get the f*** off please. Thank you.
- On a related note, if you steal someone's Coldfire siege, you are a jerk.
- Do not fire at the actual door on the side postern. It does nothing. Hit the surrounding wall.
The picture the OP has for oil placement over the Inner front door is not efficient. Placed correctly, there is room for at least 7 oils, 5 of which can be operated without taking fire from enemies from below.
@FrancisCrawford
That's a good question! I'd say it depends on the siege weapon you are using. The big trebs can easily be repaired while you are waiting for them to reload. So you shoot, go out, repair (x2) and then it'll be ready to be repaired again. You do not want to do this, when you're under heavy fire tho, as you can get killed while repairing. If it's a good siege then i just place them inside the castle when it's quiet, repair them and then re-pack them.When should one stow siege engines? When should one repair them?
I ask in particular around the idea of reusing the rare or expensive ones.
For the Ballistas it's different. You can repair a ballista almost one time between the shots (you do loose a bit of time, because the repair takes slightly longer then the reload). However i feel like it does make sense to do this during a defensive siege, as you are often in a relatively safe position. When attacking, it depends on the situation if i bother to re-pack or not. For example a heavy defended castle - i might just leave it and move on or if everybody is focused on one area i'll re-pack it, as i know i won't be targeted because the focus is on the main gate for example. On an empty castle i almost always pack it, as long as it has over 25% durability. I never bother to repair normal ballistas, i only repair the expensive ones, but that is personal preference. If you don't want to spend to much AP in buying new ones, you can pack them and just repair later.
The new Lancers can be repaired once between each shot (just about) and since you never really need them in offensive sieges, i'm doing this a lot - as long as it has above 70% "health" remaining.
And the best Tipp of
@Delsskia
The correct way to siege is to never aim one at me.
If you have any suggestions or more examples feel free to post them here.
13
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adirondack wrote: »don't forget about cold fire sieges.
Exactly like fire siege weapons, only much deadlier.0 -
maddiniiLuna✭✭✭✭Cold Fire sieges are mentioned in the Stone Tribok section. Would you prefer a separate section for those? Also Meatbag does apply disease aoe damage and disease damage can proc Major Defile which reduces healing received by 30% for 4 seconds, but does not necessarily have to. I have actually never seen it proc once to be honest.1
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adirondack✭✭✭✭✭it might be interesting to describe the differences between a cold fire ballista and a regular fire ballista, so people get an understanding of just how much deadlier they can be. Same for a cold stone treb and a cold fire treb.
Also perhaps a quick mention of how to acquire them, if you haven't done so already.
Otherwise a good summary. Perhaps a table showing the range, preferred use, wall damage, and potential enemy damage for each unit.
Ray1 -
mague✭✭✭✭✭maddiniiLuna wrote: »If you have any suggestions or more examples feel free to post them here.
On the walls or in front of the gate. If you are a healer you should have one of those slotted. Wherever siege weapons come in the shield should be up.
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Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Solid information. If only it were required reading. Always see fire ballista used on walls and doors, wasting space.
Other tips:
Keep trebuchet off porch so more ballista can be placed.
Place ballista adjacent to porch columns, so two can be placed. One between columns is one less ballista.
Postern doors take no damage-hit stairs or wall around posterns.
Kill NPC asap, especially mages who heal or cast negates.
Don't attack resources before the keep. It's a red flag to your presence and gives enemy time to set up defense.Edited by Ourorboros on October 7, 2019 5:13PMPC/NA/DCBreton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)1 -
Lord_Bidr✭✭✭Fantastic write-up, an absolute must-read for all newcomers and even veterens who mostly run in PUGs.~ The brightest lights often cast the darkest shadows. ~2 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You say "Tribok", I hear
Good info which should be helpful. One thing some people get prickly about but I think they shouldn't: using others' siege.
The occupancy of siege flows out from the door or main line for a wall. Don't take siege being used near the door if you didn't put it down. However if you see siege being laid out and not used by the planter make use of it. It's easier to spot when its just 3 people taking an outpost - a typical player can only use about 4-5 ballistae on cooldown in a diamond type pattern - so when you see me put down 8 siege I want others to use them. We don't get much out of our time on a failed attack. Coldfire isn't shared so freely with others, be apprehensive with that.
I'd also rather some newer or less experienced players shoot the wall with my siege while I defend them (chase squirrels off, but don't chase them down) or draw fire as opposed to them getting picked off while I siege just because I'm attached to an easily replaceable 7200 ap.Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
Claire✭✭✭NordSwordnBoard wrote: »Good info which should be helpful. One thing some people get prickly about but I think they shouldn't: using others' siege.
With the exception of Coldfire ballistae. Generally too expensive to share, and the owner may only have a small window of time to put them away when the door comes down.
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maddiniiLuna✭✭✭✭Thank you for all your contributions. I didn't get time to update it today with suggested edits, but will get around to do it maybe over the weekend. I actually have to do some testing on the exact damage values before.
A quick hint: If you don't know how to aquire coldfire sieges - you can get them from dolmen in cyrodiil. I used to ran pug group often and when we go to attack castle, just command you group for a quick stop at the closest dolmen. If just one person get's a coldfire siege and is able to use it, it will help tremendously.0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thank you! I’m only a Lieutenant, and I’ve been trying to just follow orders so this was very helpful.
One question.
When I was a Recruit my ballista the door hit for 2k every time. Now at Lieutenant it hits for sometimes 2360. Does siege crit? Is it something I changed in my cp or armor? Sometime 3 star and 5 star generals use oils and those seem to hurt way more than when a low rank uses oils.Edited by max_only on October 5, 2019 3:01AM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
maddiniiLuna✭✭✭✭Siege weapons do not crit. I'm not sure how those numbers occur I'll have a look later tonight.
The only damage buff to siege weapons I know from my head is the emperor buff that increase the damage by double for only the emperor. However I do not know everything
Cp or battle rank does not effect siege weapon damage.0 -
Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thank you! I’m only a Lieutenant, and I’ve been trying to just follow orders so this was very helpful.
One question.
When I was a Recruit my ballista the door hit for 2k every time. Now at Lieutenant it hits for sometimes 2360. Does siege crit? Is it something I changed in my cp or armor? Sometime 3 star and 5 star generals use oils and those seem to hurt way more than when a low rank uses oils.
The extra damage, above the standard 2k, is from jewelry trait for extra damage. You will only see this when door is 10% or < health, which is where jewelry damage is added.PC/NA/DCBreton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)3 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Couple of things I'd add for emphasis:- If the enemy is about to break down a side postern, remove your fire ballista off the oil lips - which isn't really doing anything - so oil can go there which actually has a chance to defend said postern.
- If you insist on trying to countersiege on the top floor on an inner castle, please slot and use skills so you won't die in the hail of enemy meatbags and fire trebs raining down on you. It's hard to rez you and if I'm doing that, I'm not defending the castle.
- If you see what you think is an unattended siege weapon, 9 times out of 10, it is very attended by a person who just temporarily gets off of it because they don;t like standing in stupid. If you are still convinced it isn't being used, then loose one shot/pour and get the f*** off please. Thank you.
- On a related note, if you steal someone's Coldfire siege, you are a jerk.
- Do not fire at the actual door on the side postern. It does nothing. Hit the surrounding wall.
The picture the OP has for oil placement over the Inner front door is not efficient. Placed correctly, there is room for at least 7 oils, 5 of which can be operated without taking fire from enemies from below. Edited by Joy_Division on October 9, 2019 6:34PM3 -
maddiniiLuna✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »The picture the OP has for oil placement over the Inner front door is not efficient. Placed correctly, there is room for at least 7 oils, 5 of which can be operated without taking fire from enemies from below.
Thank you for this! Technically this is correct. You do get more out of it, placing the oils like this. There is one problem tho, which is you can not reach the "second" area of the circle with the ballista, when the oil is to far on the corner of the hole. You need to place it further back, which will also block a treb from being placed there (not like anybody uses a treb up there, but it would be helpfully tho).
But yeah this is also perfectly fine, since the majority of people wouldn't put a ballista up there anyway (unfortunately). So thank you!0 -
Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭Hmm, think you missed something there OP.
CAMPS...CAMPS...CAMPS!!! Need to write up when and where they can be setup for offense or defense!!"The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You've gone advanced, I'd start with "Buy siege, place it pointing at a door and fire". Maybe that way I wouldn't show up to 20 players milling aimlessly around 2 ballistas.1 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just learned of the addon “forward camp preview”. they should implement this in the game immediately. I placed my forward camp too far away before I got this. What a waste!#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
ExistingRug61✭✭✭✭Great guide
Some extra things I have found from my time in Cyrodiil:
1) I believe you can actually be more efficient than your example in "How to Ram" as it is possible top fit four ballistas around the ram (in addition to the one under it), all of which can be operated while remaining on the ram. But this can only be done with very accurate placement and for porch doors where the porch is completely flat with no obstacles (Chalman is annoying).
2) As you say describe in "How to Oil" the corner ballistas are very effective. One thing to note though (at least on console) is that it takes a loooooooong time to actually aim these ballistas downwards and whenever you get off them the aim resets to horizontal, meaning unless you stay on them the whole time it is not possible to fire them at the maximum rate of fire due to the time spent re-aiming. So staying on them is best if its possible (barring counter siege or lack of other defenders)
3) You can actually hit part of the outer circle with oils if the oils are placed just to the side of one of the 135deg corners of the hole and aimed right into that corner (kind of hard to describe but I can't post a pic unfortunately). Its not quite as good as the corner ballistas but it still gets quite good coverage, and will make short work of any ballistas set up on that part of the porch. This in conjunction with oils on the outer crenellations can give you almost full coverage of the porch with oils.
4) If you put a fire ballista behind the oil halfway down the stairs (in pic #6 of "How to Oil") you can aim through the interior door gap between the flags and hit the back flag. This is useful for cases where the attackers push straight to back flag, or to provide cover for the defenders manning the catapult in pic#2 of "Inner Defensive Sieges". It also provides something effective to do while waiting for the oil to be poured again.
5) Also, not really a siege specific thing and may be more of a no-cp thing (where npcs are comparatively stronger maybe?), but once the fight is inside during a defence heal the npcs and try to keep the them alive. They are very useful in an outnumbered situation for their extra damage, frequent CC of enemy players, and also defensively as LoS tools.
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Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Trebuchets should always go in the back row behind all other siege. The guy who drops a big treb on a porch or in the doorway during a defense is nullifying the siege of his allies behind him. Instead of hitting the enemy they will be hitting his treb.Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Quick siege with a small group.
You siege both inner (only trebs can be used for this) and outer keep walls at the same time, BUT YOU WANT THEM BOTH TO BE AT 50% before you start actual siege. This allows you to "stealthy" damage the walls as much as possible because when wall HP drops below 50% keep will be set UA and it will alarm defenders. When both walls are at 50% focus on the outer with full possible power. Then quick inner and your'e done.
SKills during siege.
It's a bit hard since we have in combat bug to swap skills during defense/ofense but there are skills that are extremly useful during sieges.
Obvious one is Siege weapon shield. Remember to use ALWAYS siege weapon shield morph as it greatly reduces damage not only to players but also to siege weapons wich is very important both when it goes to offense and defense.
Negate. This skill can decide whenever sige will succeed or fail. It's hard to advice when and where to cast it, but with time you'll feel the right moment and spot to cast it, usually its in tight spaces where you can focus a lot of siege fire. Then you can watch how seemingly immortal group of players wipes in few seconds. This skill is extremly useful when combined with mass root.
Manifestation of terror, Volcanic Rune, Time Freeze/Borrowed Time. You want those skills to be placed or used mainly on breaches. Especially tricky ones are Manifestation of terror and Volcanic rune as those are invisible for your enemies till they trigger it. There is nothing more satisfying to watch than group of players that gets feared/blown in the air while those oils are droping on their heads.
Offensive tips and tricks.
Getting through breach.
How to get through heavily defended breach? Use your mount! It's hard due to in combat bug but if you manage to get on your mount and cast major gallop you can ride through breach before defenders even notice what happens. Just don't ride straight forward, try to keep your self out of sight till the last moment, then fast jump/ride through breach just to pass through "death field", then dismount ASAP, roll dodge/cloak/streak to nearest tower. In my case (magblade) it works around 95% of a time. This has also one very important aspect. When defenders see someone who breaks through breach they get narrow vision to kill that person, meaning just you alone dragged whole bunch of defenders from breach.
On a side note, you can ride your mount in posterns meaning it can be used to get into these.
WARNING - don't do this if you have not maxed out your mount stamina and speed as it will end in your dismount and death.
Ok im in, what's next?
You can help in few ways. Don't try to attack defenders on the yard as you will be probably anihilated in seconds. Don't get into 1v1 fights on the walls to. Focus on sieges and camps. First of all make sure you have some breathing room, when youre dead you wont help.
1. Destroy enemy camps. You can do this by setting them on flames manually or from distance by using sieges (3 shots from ballista is enough).
2. Try to distract oilers above the breach. You don't need to kill them. Just occupy them for as long as you can. Those 30s when they have stopped puring oils on breach can be crucial and will force them to place new sieges cause the ones they were using probably will selfdestroy due to inactivity.
3. When you see coldharbour siege... Burn it ]:>
Destroy defenders camps.
When keep is heavily defended and you can't get inside, instead of shooting arrows to random people on the wall search for enemy camps. These are placed usually in outer keep ring or outside of the keep near the doors. What to do when you are outside of the keep and you know there is a camp behind the wall? Use trebuchet! It can destroy enemy camp in few shots through outer wall.
How to break inner defense.
When you can't break inner keep defense, use counter sieges from outer keep ring to force defenders to fight for their lives on the top floor. This will greatly disrupt their defense as it won't allow them to oil the attackers as much. Best sieges for this are trebuchets and catapults.
How to stand on Ram.
Duh? There is one trick that can greatly increase your survival chances when you stand on ram which is heavily oiled. Try to fit into a corner of the doors. Due to oils limitations this is very often (not always, it depends where the oil is "aimed") dead spot for them. Even if you will recieve some damage, most of the time you will get just one oil on you instead of 2 or more because oils from the other side wont reach you. NEVER STAND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RAM because you will revieve damage from ALL of the oils.
Edited by Mayrael on November 6, 2019 9:53AMSay no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge1 -
Anony_Mouse✭✭✭✭This is a really good guide, thank you! I was wondering if anyone has any info to add about the Lancers?0 -
maddiniiLuna✭✭✭✭Anony_Mouse wrote: »This is a really good guide, thank you! I was wondering if anyone has any info to add about the Lancers?
If you're trying to get your hands on those, you will need acheology. You get a lead by completing the daily missions for 40 players etc. It's the board next to where you get the scroll quests. It does take time to get the lead, you gotta be lucky to have it in your first quest. Altho when in group you can complete these quests unlimited times, if you ask that somebody shares them.
After you found the lead you can adventure out and dig out your treasure (which won't be in Cyrodiil!) - you'll get a reward box that contains your new siege weapon (as one piece) and it will act like all other siege weapons - meaning you can pack / unpack from quick slot bar, repair and burn them.
Placement of this particular siege can sometimes be tricky. If you put it too far away the spread will render ineffective. On other cases it's just what you need to conquer the battle. If you put it too close and are fighting an entire group of "siegers" you gonna have a bad time because you could potentially end up loosing due to everybody focusing on the same target, while others siege your castle.
So to make it clear: It fires multiple ballistics shots at once, that have a seemingly guaranteed chance of applying a status effect (frost, fire, shock). Each ballistics will be seen as a separate aoe field, despite they all coming from the same weapon. The spread of the aoe fields is determined by the distance and height of yourself.
Thank you for the feedback. I forgot this thread existed, but i'll make sure to update it soon.2
