Steel Tornado (The new Impulse)

Domander · April 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

@pppontus the ability was already the best AoE in 1.5 but the light armour meta and wall of elements never let it fully catch on.

The ability has actually had a 15% damage nerf due to battle spirit. I had death recaps with 1k hits in 1.5 when in execute range.

Now it's quickly catching on. 5 people running into a tower room or flag spamming tornado cover the entire area and the damage can be huge.

I don't mind it being the hardest hitting AoE, but not with that huge range!

Range is THE reason to pick this morph and use this skill. It always has been, even before 1.6

btw, talons is 6m and if you were in that, a range nerf wasn't going to help you.

pppontus · April 2015

Derra wrote: »

I still think aoe is too weak in this game. It only shines when 12+ Players stack up and spam.
Imho 2 or three aoe casters should be a considerable threat to a Group of clumped up ppl.

Did you consider that if the 12 clumped people spam the same AOE you would die within 0,01 seconds of entering their range? ^^

I can agree with more ranged AOE though. That would actually not benefit the lagblobs for once.

Derra · April 2015

I will say it: aoe is not the Problem. The targetting System is. If an organised grp would be able to Focus fire the same target inside a blob reliably none of these discussions would occur

badmojo · April 2015

Why not just... not stand in the AOE zerg? Why not take a couple steps back, throw some siege on them, maybe some other ranged AOEs and just generally don't let them steel tornado you? That might help, might.

Derra · April 2015

Derra wrote: »

I will say it: aoe is not the Problem. The targetting System is. If an organised grp would be able to Focus fire ppl inside a blob none of these discussions would occur

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I still think aoe is too weak in this game. It only shines when 12+ Players stack up and spam.
Imho 2 or three aoe casters should be a considerable threat to a Group of clumped up ppl.

Did you consider that if the 12 clumped people spam the same AOE you would die within 0,01 seconds of entering their range? ^^

I can agree with more ranged AOE though. That would actually not benefit the lagblobs for once.

Thats where a considerable price increase would come in handy. Like 6 to 8 casts out of resource expensive. Also short aoe ccs that are not ultimates would be nice. Both in combination favors quality // organisation over quantitiy and does not scale exponentially well in larger numbers on your side...

pppontus · April 2015

Derra wrote: »

I will say it: aoe is not the Problem. The targetting System is. If an organised grp would be able to Focus fire the same target inside a blob reliably none of these discussions would occur

I agree!

At this point I mainly laugh at it and just put down a fire ballista instead, trying to teach the dog that stacking means dying lol.

It's not even close to how I wish this game was (..about skill and coordination) but then again it's just getting more casual everyday so I'm not expecting much.

badmojo wrote: »

Why not just... not stand in the AOE zerg? Why not take a couple steps back, throw some siege on them, maybe some other ranged AOEs and just generally don't let them steel tornado you? That might help, might.

Well, mate.. You have 5 stars so I thought you knew this: there is no ranged AOE in this game. Sure, you can try to call 1k/s ground effects ranged AOE.. but it really isn't.

And yes, I siege the f out of these groups and enjoy when they cry as much as anyone. I'd just prefer actually pvping rather than sieging. But the meta is what it is, just remember steel tornado now is better than impulse was in its glory days, sure hope none of you ever complained about impulse.. that would make you hypocrites

Varicite · April 2015

It just doesn't seem like a single person in this thread is even trying to consider the effect this would have on PvE for stamina builds in AoE fights.

/shrug

pppontus · April 2015

Derra wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I will say it: aoe is not the Problem. The targetting System is. If an organised grp would be able to Focus fire ppl inside a blob none of these discussions would occur

pppontus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I still think aoe is too weak in this game. It only shines when 12+ Players stack up and spam.
Imho 2 or three aoe casters should be a considerable threat to a Group of clumped up ppl.

Did you consider that if the 12 clumped people spam the same AOE you would die within 0,01 seconds of entering their range? ^^

I can agree with more ranged AOE though. That would actually not benefit the lagblobs for once.

Thats where a considerable price increase would come in handy. Like 6 to 8 casts out of resource expensive. Also short aoe ccs that are not ultimates would be nice. Both in combination favors quality // organisation over quantitiy and does not scale exponentially well in larger numbers on your side...

Yeah. Sounds really good imo, just really don't see it happening

This patch already made resource management out of control, it was laughably easy before. Now I can purge 40 times consecutively in combat without even really optimizing (healer+seducer, 25k hp, etc.). Just wtf, I haven't ran out of magicka once in pvp since the patch dropped. I don't see how it's even possible.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, anything that makes you have to use your brain is not likely to be introduced at this point.

badmojo · April 2015

pppontus wrote: »

Well, mate.. You have 5 stars so I thought you knew this: there is no ranged AOE in this game. Sure, you can try to call 1k/s ground effects ranged AOE.. but it really isn't.

And yes, I siege the f out of these groups and enjoy when they cry as much as anyone. I'd just prefer actually pvping rather than sieging. But the meta is what it is, just remember steel tornado now is better than impulse was in its glory days, sure hope none of you ever complained about impulse.. that would make you hypocrites

Caltrops and the sorcs lightning splash just don't exist? And god forbid you'd ever have to use a siege weapon in a war like this.

No, I didn't complain about impulse spam, because I honestly didn't care then, and I'd gladly have the changes reverted. If you can't be bothered to counter what your enemies are doing, and insist that running at them swinging your sword is the way you want to play, then I laugh at your suffering to steel tornado mobs.

The AOE cap was increased specifically for stuff like this, but if you refuse to use any type of AOE to counter an AOE spamming group, that's your fault for being stubborn.

akredon_ESO · April 2015

lol i have been doing this and its so much fun xD

Rune_Relic · April 2015

badmojo wrote: »

Why not just... not stand in the AOE zerg? Why not take a couple steps back, throw some siege on them, maybe some other ranged AOEs and just generally don't let them steel tornado you? That might help, might.

Yep. This is actually a high risk strategy.
Its cost and the initial damage is low.
You RELY on people staying in range because if they move out ...your stamina is gone and you are a sitting duck.

FFS...just stand back and watch him run out of stamina...then give him some wrecking blows or crystal frags after stunlocking the arse out of them.

I relied on this kind of build in PVE Aoe but it absolutely relies on all the enemies stacking on you all at once.
If dps start moving out of range while tanks stay close...you are gonna have a bad day.

Now if their was a pbaoe stunlock that could be spammed at the same time you could put a string argument in.
That was how the talon/standard/bats etc worked.
There is only the ultimate that can do that and you cant get many hits off before the stuns used up.

STUN is the major issue at the moment...especially with 1 parsec TTK

wraith808 · April 2015

First they came for the vampires, and calls of Nerf! could be heard through the night.
Then they came for the sorcerers, and cries of Nerf could be heard, chaining them in place.
Then they came for the dragon knights. Them, they burned to the ground.
Then they came for the staff users, and the shouts of Nerf! made them impulsively kill a skill.
Now, they're coming for steel tornado, and the same cries are on their lips.

But, when they come for you, will the cries be on your lips, or from your eyes.

I can understand balancing... but this continual cry of Nerf everything, rather than looking at things all around got us to where we are now. There are other ways to balance other than blindly Nerfing- and it might just turn out to be better for the community...

This isn't to say that things haven't needed balancing, but this burn the ground and leave nothing behind approach is really making it difficult to do... *anything*. And no, I really haven't been affected by any of the 'nerfs'. It just seems ridiculous at this point.

pppontus · April 2015

badmojo wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Well, mate.. You have 5 stars so I thought you knew this: there is no ranged AOE in this game. Sure, you can try to call 1k/s ground effects ranged AOE.. but it really isn't.

And yes, I siege the f out of these groups and enjoy when they cry as much as anyone. I'd just prefer actually pvping rather than sieging. But the meta is what it is, just remember steel tornado now is better than impulse was in its glory days, sure hope none of you ever complained about impulse.. that would make you hypocrites

Caltrops and the sorcs lightning splash just don't exist? And god forbid you'd ever have to use a siege weapon in a war like this.

No, I didn't complain about impulse spam, because I honestly didn't care then, and I'd gladly have the changes reverted. If you can't be bothered to counter what your enemies are doing, and insist that running at them swinging your sword is the way you want to play, then I laugh at your suffering to steel tornado mobs.

The AOE cap was increased specifically for stuff like this, but if you refuse to use any type of AOE to counter an AOE spamming group, that's your fault for being stubborn.

I'm sorry dude, can you read?

Caltrops and lightning splash are among those 1k dps skills I was talking about, if you seriously think an AOE group will even notice the damage from it - I guess you have never been in pvp.

And yes, if you even read the message you actually quoted. I siege them, all the time, I see the ap counter go killing blow x 5000000000 but you know what? It's still not fun. I want to fight players y'know. In the time of impulse and AOE caps it was still mindblowingly easy to wreck the trains with some coordination.. What I'm telling you is that with this.. It's siege or gtfo. You can't survive getting close to the blob.

And tes, I could log on my stamina nb and run around spamming one skill all day if I wanted to.. but I prefer actually doing something a monkey couldn't do

I would even be kinda OP with my full vicious ophidian.

If you think AOE caps make a difference in this instance, I'm sorry but you might have to start thinking. But alright, I don't care - the only good thing pvp still has going for it is that people who don't understand game mechanics will still always lose and die no matter what weird fotm they use.

pppontus · April 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Why not just... not stand in the AOE zerg? Why not take a couple steps back, throw some siege on them, maybe some other ranged AOEs and just generally don't let them steel tornado you? That might help, might.

Yep. This is actually a high risk strategy.
Its cost and the initial damage is low.
You RELY on people staying in range because if they move out ...your stamina is gone and you are a sitting duck.

FFS...just stand back and watch him run out of stamina...then give him some wrecking blows or crystal frags after stunlocking the arse out of them.

I relied on this kind of build in PVE Aoe but it absolutely relies on all the enemies stacking on you all at once.
If dps start moving out of range while tanks stay close...you are gonna have a bad day.

Now if their was a pbaoe stunlock that could be spammed at the same time you could put a string argument in.
That was how the talon/standard/bats etc worked.
There is only the ultimate that can do that and you cant get many hits off before the stuns used up.

STUN is the major issue at the moment...especially with 1 parsec TTK

High risk? I can spam steel tornado indefinitely.

As long as my group kills an enemy every now and then: vicious ophidian 2000 stamina return on kill.
Get stamina back when I hit an enemy: siphoning attacks.

"enemies stacking on you"

12 meter radius. Biggest PBAoE in the game. Stacking? You can cover an entire floor of a resource tower with it.

I'm not even telling anyone to nerf anything whatsoever, but these threads are like .. I can't stop myself from commenting because it's like people don't even play this game. If they do, I don't understand how they can think this is how it works?

I mean if you think your enemies have to stack on you for Steel Tornado to work, I'm guessing you have never used another AOE from any weapon or class skill?

Domander · April 2015

pppontus wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Well, mate.. You have 5 stars so I thought you knew this: there is no ranged AOE in this game. Sure, you can try to call 1k/s ground effects ranged AOE.. but it really isn't.

And yes, I siege the f out of these groups and enjoy when they cry as much as anyone. I'd just prefer actually pvping rather than sieging. But the meta is what it is, just remember steel tornado now is better than impulse was in its glory days, sure hope none of you ever complained about impulse.. that would make you hypocrites

Caltrops and the sorcs lightning splash just don't exist? And god forbid you'd ever have to use a siege weapon in a war like this.

No, I didn't complain about impulse spam, because I honestly didn't care then, and I'd gladly have the changes reverted. If you can't be bothered to counter what your enemies are doing, and insist that running at them swinging your sword is the way you want to play, then I laugh at your suffering to steel tornado mobs.

The AOE cap was increased specifically for stuff like this, but if you refuse to use any type of AOE to counter an AOE spamming group, that's your fault for being stubborn.

I'm sorry dude, can you read?

Caltrops and lightning splash are among those 1k dps skills I was talking about, if you seriously think an AOE group will even notice the damage from it - I guess you have never been in pvp.

And yes, if you even read the message you actually quoted. I siege them, all the time, I see the ap counter go killing blow x 5000000000 but you know what? It's still not fun. I want to fight players y'know. In the time of impulse and AOE caps it was still mindblowingly easy to wreck the trains with some coordination.. What I'm telling you is that with this.. It's siege or gtfo. You can't survive getting close to the blob.

And tes, I could log on my stamina nb and run around spamming one skill all day if I wanted to.. but I prefer actually doing something a monkey couldn't do
I would even be kinda OP with my full vicious ophidian.

If you think AOE caps make a difference in this instance, I'm sorry but you might have to start thinking. But alright, I don't care - the only good thing pvp still has going for it is that people who don't understand game mechanics will still always lose and die no matter what weird fotm they use.

so..... you want to run into a large group of enemy players and "fight them" ? ..uh

badmojo · April 2015

pppontus wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Well, mate.. You have 5 stars so I thought you knew this: there is no ranged AOE in this game. Sure, you can try to call 1k/s ground effects ranged AOE.. but it really isn't.

And yes, I siege the f out of these groups and enjoy when they cry as much as anyone. I'd just prefer actually pvping rather than sieging. But the meta is what it is, just remember steel tornado now is better than impulse was in its glory days, sure hope none of you ever complained about impulse.. that would make you hypocrites

Caltrops and the sorcs lightning splash just don't exist? And god forbid you'd ever have to use a siege weapon in a war like this.

No, I didn't complain about impulse spam, because I honestly didn't care then, and I'd gladly have the changes reverted. If you can't be bothered to counter what your enemies are doing, and insist that running at them swinging your sword is the way you want to play, then I laugh at your suffering to steel tornado mobs.

The AOE cap was increased specifically for stuff like this, but if you refuse to use any type of AOE to counter an AOE spamming group, that's your fault for being stubborn.

I'm sorry dude, can you read?

Caltrops and lightning splash are among those 1k dps skills I was talking about, if you seriously think an AOE group will even notice the damage from it - I guess you have never been in pvp.

And yes, if you even read the message you actually quoted. I siege them, all the time, I see the ap counter go killing blow x 5000000000 but you know what? It's still not fun. I want to fight players y'know. In the time of impulse and AOE caps it was still mindblowingly easy to wreck the trains with some coordination.. What I'm telling you is that with this.. It's siege or gtfo. You can't survive getting close to the blob.

And tes, I could log on my stamina nb and run around spamming one skill all day if I wanted to.. but I prefer actually doing something a monkey couldn't do
I would even be kinda OP with my full vicious ophidian.

If you think AOE caps make a difference in this instance, I'm sorry but you might have to start thinking. But alright, I don't care - the only good thing pvp still has going for it is that people who don't understand game mechanics will still always lose and die no matter what weird fotm they use.

I get it, I understand that you don't want to HAVE to use siege, but that's the game we're playing at this moment. I also understand that you want that gratification of throwing down an AOE and instantly see the damage it does having a big effect on the enemies, but then they wouldn't be spamming steel tornado, they would be throwing caltrops and lighting splash all over. So you're basically discouraged by the low damage the ranged AOEs do, therefore you just don't use them? I really don't want to explain how small amounts of damage can add up over time and help drain their resources. I'm sure you already know this, but yet you talk as if 1-2k damage does nothing so it's worthless.

If you don't think the AOE caps help in killing tight balls of AOE spamming players, then I don't know what to say. When impulse spam was a problem, it wasn't that impulse was amazing, it was that no matter how much AOE you throw down, there were players in that group who were invulnerable to it. Now, unless they have a hundred people, everyone will take damage from the AOEs you throw on them. But, I'm sure you know this, you just like getting upset and saying the situation is hopeless.

Personally, I like to find ways around the annoying things my enemies decide to do, it's so much more fun than simply crying on the forums that the enemies aren't doing what you want them to. Then getting snippy with people who dare to attempt to help you. Can I read? LOL can you play?

pppontus · April 2015

Domander wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Well, mate.. You have 5 stars so I thought you knew this: there is no ranged AOE in this game. Sure, you can try to call 1k/s ground effects ranged AOE.. but it really isn't.

And yes, I siege the f out of these groups and enjoy when they cry as much as anyone. I'd just prefer actually pvping rather than sieging. But the meta is what it is, just remember steel tornado now is better than impulse was in its glory days, sure hope none of you ever complained about impulse.. that would make you hypocrites

Caltrops and the sorcs lightning splash just don't exist? And god forbid you'd ever have to use a siege weapon in a war like this.

No, I didn't complain about impulse spam, because I honestly didn't care then, and I'd gladly have the changes reverted. If you can't be bothered to counter what your enemies are doing, and insist that running at them swinging your sword is the way you want to play, then I laugh at your suffering to steel tornado mobs.

The AOE cap was increased specifically for stuff like this, but if you refuse to use any type of AOE to counter an AOE spamming group, that's your fault for being stubborn.

I'm sorry dude, can you read?

Caltrops and lightning splash are among those 1k dps skills I was talking about, if you seriously think an AOE group will even notice the damage from it - I guess you have never been in pvp.

And yes, if you even read the message you actually quoted. I siege them, all the time, I see the ap counter go killing blow x 5000000000 but you know what? It's still not fun. I want to fight players y'know. In the time of impulse and AOE caps it was still mindblowingly easy to wreck the trains with some coordination.. What I'm telling you is that with this.. It's siege or gtfo. You can't survive getting close to the blob.

And tes, I could log on my stamina nb and run around spamming one skill all day if I wanted to.. but I prefer actually doing something a monkey couldn't do
I would even be kinda OP with my full vicious ophidian.

If you think AOE caps make a difference in this instance, I'm sorry but you might have to start thinking. But alright, I don't care - the only good thing pvp still has going for it is that people who don't understand game mechanics will still always lose and die no matter what weird fotm they use.

so..... you want to run into a large group of enemy players and "fight them" ? ..uh

Yep. Just like I always have. I know you people think that it's not possible to fight trains, it is and always has been. Except for when idiot skills like steel tornado aoe execute with extra immobilize damage come up and do 6K+ spammable pbaoe damage. Almost an instant batswarm with twice the radius! Seems normal idd.

badmojo wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Well, mate.. You have 5 stars so I thought you knew this: there is no ranged AOE in this game. Sure, you can try to call 1k/s ground effects ranged AOE.. but it really isn't.

And yes, I siege the f out of these groups and enjoy when they cry as much as anyone. I'd just prefer actually pvping rather than sieging. But the meta is what it is, just remember steel tornado now is better than impulse was in its glory days, sure hope none of you ever complained about impulse.. that would make you hypocrites

Caltrops and the sorcs lightning splash just don't exist? And god forbid you'd ever have to use a siege weapon in a war like this.

No, I didn't complain about impulse spam, because I honestly didn't care then, and I'd gladly have the changes reverted. If you can't be bothered to counter what your enemies are doing, and insist that running at them swinging your sword is the way you want to play, then I laugh at your suffering to steel tornado mobs.

The AOE cap was increased specifically for stuff like this, but if you refuse to use any type of AOE to counter an AOE spamming group, that's your fault for being stubborn.

I'm sorry dude, can you read?

Caltrops and lightning splash are among those 1k dps skills I was talking about, if you seriously think an AOE group will even notice the damage from it - I guess you have never been in pvp.

And yes, if you even read the message you actually quoted. I siege them, all the time, I see the ap counter go killing blow x 5000000000 but you know what? It's still not fun. I want to fight players y'know. In the time of impulse and AOE caps it was still mindblowingly easy to wreck the trains with some coordination.. What I'm telling you is that with this.. It's siege or gtfo. You can't survive getting close to the blob.

And tes, I could log on my stamina nb and run around spamming one skill all day if I wanted to.. but I prefer actually doing something a monkey couldn't do
I would even be kinda OP with my full vicious ophidian.

If you think AOE caps make a difference in this instance, I'm sorry but you might have to start thinking. But alright, I don't care - the only good thing pvp still has going for it is that people who don't understand game mechanics will still always lose and die no matter what weird fotm they use.

I get it, I understand that you don't want to HAVE to use siege, but that's the game we're playing at this moment. I also understand that you want that gratification of throwing down an AOE and instantly see the damage it does having a big effect on the enemies, but then they wouldn't be spamming steel tornado, they would be throwing caltrops and lighting splash all over. So you're basically discouraged by the low damage the ranged AOEs do, therefore you just don't use them? I really don't want to explain how small amounts of damage can add up over time and help drain their resources. I'm sure you already know this, but yet you talk as if 1-2k damage does nothing so it's worthless.

If you don't think the AOE caps help in killing tight balls of AOE spamming players, then I don't know what to say. When impulse spam was a problem, it wasn't that impulse was amazing, it was that no matter how much AOE you throw down, there were players in that group who were invulnerable to it. Now, unless they have a hundred people, everyone will take damage from the AOEs you throw on them. But, I'm sure you know this, you just like getting upset and saying the situation is hopeless.

Personally, I like to find ways around the annoying things my enemies decide to do, it's so much more fun than simply crying on the forums that the enemies aren't doing what you want them to. Then getting snippy with people who dare to attempt to help you. Can I read? LOL can you play?

Haha, trust me.. I do not need your help, and sure as hell didn't ask for it. What gratification? Who are you even talking to..? I know very well how the mechanics of this game works. If I wanted "gratification" I'd be in my full vicious spamming steel tornado 4-ever right now. But it's *** gameplay and I don't want to win because my abilities are better than my opponents abilities, I wanna win because I'm better than them

I asked if you can read, as you basically told me to do things that I wrote in my post that I was currently doing?

I was saying AOE caps do not help you when using lightning splash, as it does not matter if 24 players take 1k dps - as this can be outhealed by one rapid regen. It's not damage, it's a slight tickle.

Nvm, I'll continue to rain fire trebs on everyone and hope that this game one day rewards skill over spamming one button. Also remember how much you like steel tornado when I inevitably get bored and go out and trash you by stacking all the damage bonuses for it. #remember

Varicite · April 2015

pppontus wrote: »

Yep. Just like I always have. I know you people think that it's not possible to fight trains, it is and always has been. Except for when idiot skills like steel tornado aoe execute with extra immobilize damage come up and do 6K+ spammable pbaoe damage. Almost an instant batswarm with twice the radius! Seems normal idd.

Seems like you're more upset at having to change your playstyle somewhat than anything else.

/shrug

badmojo · April 2015

Let's look at your example a bit closer...

1277 magicka X 12 = 15324 magicka to put Rapid Regen on all 24 players.
1830 magicka is the cost of Lightning Flood

For every lightning flood you cast, which lasts 6 seconds, you're causing their healers to waste 15k in magicka, because rapid regen only does 2 players at a time.

Looking even closer at it, rapid regen ticks over 16 seconds, lightning flood ticks for 6. So even if it costs 3x as much to cover those 16 seconds of healing, it's still only going to cost the sorc 5490, while it's taking away 15k magicka from the healer. Do I really need to point out that 5k is less than 15k?

That example is just just 1 sorc against a group of 25. Now think about what happens when 5 sorcs throw down that AOE, and a couple other people jump on the hard hitting siege weapons or drop oils on their heads. Suddenly the 12 rapid regens per 16second aren't cutting it and those healers need to start using the stronger and more expensive healing skills, and if you keep it up long enough then eventually they run dry and the healing almost stops.

Please, if you know the game mechanics so well, tell me why these AOE balls are so impossible to counter?

Maulkin · April 2015

I can't believe you're even talking about lighting flood as a counter to steel tornado. It's hilarious to me at this point. It's like some people are playing different PvP to me.

Not even the maths make any sense. 700 damage per 0.5" over 6". So 8.5k over 6" per target IF they stand within the 6m radius for the full duration.

...or you spam 6x Steel Tornado in the same time and you do over 30k per target in 3 times the area.

Do you go around fearing sorcs spamming liquid flood? Really?

themdogesbite · April 2015

badmojo wrote: »

Let's look at your example a bit closer...

1277 magicka X 12 = 15324 magicka to put Rapid Regen on all 24 players.
1830 magicka is the cost of Lightning Flood

For every lightning flood you cast, which lasts 6 seconds, you're causing their healers to waste 15k in magicka, because rapid regen only does 2 players at a time.

Looking even closer at it, rapid regen ticks over 16 seconds, lightning flood ticks for 6. So even if it costs 3x as much to cover those 16 seconds of healing, it's still only going to cost the sorc 5490, while it's taking away 15k magicka from the healer. Do I really need to point out that 5k is less than 15k?

That example is just just 1 sorc against a group of 25. Now think about what happens when 5 sorcs throw down that AOE, and a couple other people jump on the hard hitting siege weapons or drop oils on their heads. Suddenly the 12 rapid regens per 16second aren't cutting it and those healers need to start using the stronger and more expensive healing skills, and if you keep it up long enough then eventually they run dry and the healing almost stops.

Please, if you know the game mechanics so well, tell me why these AOE balls are so impossible to counter?

You are blowig my mind, over and over and over. When i thought it couldnt get much worse you come up with this. Are we playing the same game?

Soulac · April 2015

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Let's look at your example a bit closer...

1277 magicka X 12 = 15324 magicka to put Rapid Regen on all 24 players.
1830 magicka is the cost of Lightning Flood

For every lightning flood you cast, which lasts 6 seconds, you're causing their healers to waste 15k in magicka, because rapid regen only does 2 players at a time.

Looking even closer at it, rapid regen ticks over 16 seconds, lightning flood ticks for 6. So even if it costs 3x as much to cover those 16 seconds of healing, it's still only going to cost the sorc 5490, while it's taking away 15k magicka from the healer. Do I really need to point out that 5k is less than 15k?

That example is just just 1 sorc against a group of 25. Now think about what happens when 5 sorcs throw down that AOE, and a couple other people jump on the hard hitting siege weapons or drop oils on their heads. Suddenly the 12 rapid regens per 16second aren't cutting it and those healers need to start using the stronger and more expensive healing skills, and if you keep it up long enough then eventually they run dry and the healing almost stops.

Please, if you know the game mechanics so well, tell me why these AOE balls are so impossible to counter?

You are blowig my mind, over and over and over. When i thought it couldnt get much worse you come up with this. Are we playing the same game?

badmojo · April 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I can't believe you're even talking about lighting flood as a counter to steel tornado. It's hilarious to me at this point. It's like some people are playing different PvP to me.

Not even the maths make any sense. 700 damage per 0.5" over 6". So 8.5k over 6" per target IF they stand within the 6m radius for the full duration.

...or you spam 6x Steel Tornado in the same time and you do over 30k per target in 3 times the area.

Do you go around fearing sorcs spamming liquid flood? Really?

Here's the secret, don't stand in range of steel tornado. The range of caltrops and lightning flood are further than the radius of steel tornado. If you stand back far enough that they can't hit you, but you can hit them, they can't just heal through it forever, especially when you start lobbing siege at their little ball.

Rune_Relic · April 2015

pppontus wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Why not just... not stand in the AOE zerg? Why not take a couple steps back, throw some siege on them, maybe some other ranged AOEs and just generally don't let them steel tornado you? That might help, might.

Yep. This is actually a high risk strategy.
Its cost and the initial damage is low.
You RELY on people staying in range because if they move out ...your stamina is gone and you are a sitting duck.

FFS...just stand back and watch him run out of stamina...then give him some wrecking blows or crystal frags after stunlocking the arse out of them.

I relied on this kind of build in PVE Aoe but it absolutely relies on all the enemies stacking on you all at once.
If dps start moving out of range while tanks stay close...you are gonna have a bad day.

Now if their was a pbaoe stunlock that could be spammed at the same time you could put a string argument in.
That was how the talon/standard/bats etc worked.
There is only the ultimate that can do that and you cant get many hits off before the stuns used up.

STUN is the major issue at the moment...especially with 1 parsec TTK

High risk? I can spam steel tornado indefinitely.

As long as my group kills an enemy every now and then: vicious ophidian 2000 stamina return on kill.
Get stamina back when I hit an enemy: siphoning attacks.

"enemies stacking on you"

12 meter radius. Biggest PBAoE in the game. Stacking? You can cover an entire floor of a resource tower with it.

I'm not even telling anyone to nerf anything whatsoever, but these threads are like .. I can't stop myself from commenting because it's like people don't even play this game. If they do, I don't understand how they can think this is how it works?

I mean if you think your enemies have to stack on you for Steel Tornado to work, I'm guessing you have never used another AOE from any weapon or class skill?

Ah! You see I'm not as awesome as you so I don't have vicious ophidian
I take it you have 200 CP to go with it too no doubt.

Garion · April 2015

Maulkin, you must know by now to never call for a nerf on a skill used predominantly by NBs. Are you mad?!?

Maulkin · April 2015

badmojo wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I can't believe you're even talking about lighting flood as a counter to steel tornado. It's hilarious to me at this point. It's like some people are playing different PvP to me.

Not even the maths make any sense. 700 damage per 0.5" over 6". So 8.5k over 6" per target IF they stand within the 6m radius for the full duration.

...or you spam 6x Steel Tornado in the same time and you do over 30k per target in 3 times the area.

Do you go around fearing sorcs spamming liquid flood? Really?

Here's the secret, don't stand in range of steel tornado. The range of caltrops and lightning flood are further than the radius of steel tornado. If you stand back far enough that they can't hit you, but you can hit them, they can't just heal through it forever, especially when you start lobbing siege at their little ball.

Stop. You're talking nonsense.

Lightning flood has half the radius of steel tornado.

If I stand off them I will use siege, not lightning flood. Ever.

You cannot always stand off them.

The same tired arguments were used about the impulse bats meta. Had enough of them over the last year and clearly so have the devs since they nerfed impulse and bats repeatedly

IxSTALKERxI · April 2015

Samadhi wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

...
Edit: And consider it has bigger range than Impulse or bats and I've actually seen people use with Bats like they did with Impulse.

Bats + Roll Dodge + Steel Tornado Emperor

lol that was my emp build when i got it on chill last week. 4800 weapon damage ftw.

Maulkin · April 2015

Garion wrote: »

Maulkin, you must know by now to never call for a nerf on a skill used predominantly by NBs. Are you mad?!?

I must be XD

They are still complaining about the vamp speed stacking with the 5-set bonus to give you horse speed in stealth. They even talking about it in this thread!

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · April 2015

Maul is correct. I know one bomb group that is 100% steel tornado DD and more will switch cause of it. Should be toned down or other skills raised.

Varicite · April 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Maulkin, you must know by now to never call for a nerf on a skill used predominantly by NBs. Are you mad?!?

I must be XD

They are still complaining about the vamp speed stacking with the 5-set bonus to give you horse speed in stealth. They even talking about it in this thread!

Well, they DID say that the speed stacking was intentional and then after people upgraded their sets, pretended that it was a "bug". : P

Not the classiest move.

/shrug