Wanted: Secure method of exchanging crown items for gold

SirLeeMinion

Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.

Goregrinder

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

CassandraGemini

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Goregrinder

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

CassandraGemini

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Aelorin

I understand OP, it would be a much more safer environment for trading.

On the other hand, my transactions so far were all good.

Starlock

There's no excuse for this game not having a gold-to-crowns global exchange. Other MMOs have it. And they are more ethical for it. But ESO isn't trying to be ethical with its microtransactions. It's so rare this game takes a step in the right direction in terms of post-game monetization I would be beyond shocked if they actually added a proper gold-to-crowns exchange tool.

Goregrinder

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

CassandraGemini

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Goregrinder

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

CassandraGemini

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't do that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.

But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.

Goregrinder

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.

But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.

But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.

CassandraGemini

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.

But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.

But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.

Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.

Goregrinder

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.

But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.

But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.

Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.

Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.

idk

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

You may be right. However, if they expected trading to occur when they decided to allow gifting that is pretty much the same as intending it. If they did not expect trading to occur and merely decided to allow it afterwards that would be a sign of complete incompetence and maybe a question of intelligence as it was so obvious since we already trade AP for gold.

I really doubt Zos' management is that bad and that they were fully aware trading would occur when they added giving to the game.

Of course each of us can have our own opinion on the matter. Even though I do not think the management at Zos is doing a great job I do not thin they are that dense.

idk

To OP, the best solution is Zos change all items that can be gifted to a token that is not bound. It can therefore be traded in guild traders or any other means. Collectable items will be moved to collections once the items is "used" and consumable items will be moved to the active characters inventory.

That permits a sound way to make trading crowns safely. Those who choose to trade with strangers directly may still do so at their own risk.

idk

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.

But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.

But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.

Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.

Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.

Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.

wolfie1.0.

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.

To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.

Goregrinder

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.

But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.

But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.

Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.

Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.

Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.

Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.

Goregrinder

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.

To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.

At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.

idk

Goregrinder wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.

To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.

At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.

We have a concrete answer to Zos permitting trading crowns for gold. Gina has said it is permitted without issue when someone trades a crown store items for gold. That is really all that matters and it is very concrete.

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.

But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.

But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.

Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.

Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.

Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.

Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.

It merely means Zos did not intend for those items to be gifted. We can read a lot info that but it is meaningless to do so as I am pretty sure none of us can read their minds.

Goregrinder

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.

To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.

At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.

We have a concrete answer to Zos permitting trading crowns for gold. Gina has said it is permitted without issue when someone trades a crown store items for gold. That is really all that matters and it is very concrete.

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.

But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.

But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.

Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.

Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.

Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.

Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.

It merely means Zos did not intend for those items to be gifted. We can read a lot info that but it is meaningless to do so as I am pretty sure none of us can read their minds.

I agree, none of us can read there minds, so how things "appear" to us personally is meaningless. I definitely agree.

idk

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.

To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.

At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.

We have a concrete answer to Zos permitting trading crowns for gold. Gina has said it is permitted without issue when someone trades a crown store items for gold. That is really all that matters and it is very concrete.

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.

But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.

But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.

Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.

Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.

Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.

Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.

It merely means Zos did not intend for those items to be gifted. We can read a lot info that but it is meaningless to do so as I am pretty sure none of us can read their minds.

I agree, none of us can read there minds, so how things "appear" to us personally is meaningless. I definitely agree.

Yes. What we do know if gifting crown items for gold is acceptable behavior. Which means speculation that Zos never intended trading crown items for gold is meaningless. Glad you agree with that.

Goregrinder

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.

To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.

At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.

We have a concrete answer to Zos permitting trading crowns for gold. Gina has said it is permitted without issue when someone trades a crown store items for gold. That is really all that matters and it is very concrete.

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.

But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.

But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.

Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.

Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.

Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.

Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.

It merely means Zos did not intend for those items to be gifted. We can read a lot info that but it is meaningless to do so as I am pretty sure none of us can read their minds.

I agree, none of us can read there minds, so how things "appear" to us personally is meaningless. I definitely agree.

Yes. What we do know if gifting crown items for gold is acceptable behavior. Which means speculation that Zos never intended trading crown items for gold is meaningless. Glad you agree with that.

Yup speculation of whether it was intend or not is definitely meaningless, I definitely do agree with that.

idk

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.

To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.

At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.

We have a concrete answer to Zos permitting trading crowns for gold. Gina has said it is permitted without issue when someone trades a crown store items for gold. That is really all that matters and it is very concrete.

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.

But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.

But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.

Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.

Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.

Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.

Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.

It merely means Zos did not intend for those items to be gifted. We can read a lot info that but it is meaningless to do so as I am pretty sure none of us can read their minds.

I agree, none of us can read there minds, so how things "appear" to us personally is meaningless. I definitely agree.

Yes. What we do know if gifting crown items for gold is acceptable behavior. Which means speculation that Zos never intended trading crown items for gold is meaningless. Glad you agree with that.

Yup speculation of whether it was intend or not is definitely meaningless, I definitely do agree with that.

Exactly my point. As you sad. speculation about if Zos intended it or not is meaningless which is exactly my point. Glad you agree since your first post in this thread seemed to indicate otherwise.

Goregrinder

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.

To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.

At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.

We have a concrete answer to Zos permitting trading crowns for gold. Gina has said it is permitted without issue when someone trades a crown store items for gold. That is really all that matters and it is very concrete.

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.

But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.

But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.

Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.

Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.

Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.

Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.

It merely means Zos did not intend for those items to be gifted. We can read a lot info that but it is meaningless to do so as I am pretty sure none of us can read their minds.

I agree, none of us can read there minds, so how things "appear" to us personally is meaningless. I definitely agree.

Yes. What we do know if gifting crown items for gold is acceptable behavior. Which means speculation that Zos never intended trading crown items for gold is meaningless. Glad you agree with that.

Yup speculation of whether it was intend or not is definitely meaningless, I definitely do agree with that.

Exactly my point. As you sad. speculation about if Zos intended it or not is meaningless which is exactly my point. Glad you agree since your first post in this thread seemed to indicate otherwise.

No, it seemed to indicate that if it was on their white board of "Things the Gifting Crown Items System Should Include", transactions between players exchanging crowns or crown items for gold were probably not written on their. But yes, it is meaningless to speculate on any aspect of this considering we have no data on that.

The data we do have, is that ZOS doesn't mind that players gift, then their buddy trades them gold. But they have yet to add that as a built in feature however many years later, even for the items that CAN be sold via transaction. So occam's razor seems to apply here.

Juhasow

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I am pretty sure main reason for creating the gifting was to let people sell the gold for crowns so ZoS will be able to make even more money from crown store.

Goregrinder

Juhasow wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I am pretty sure main reason for creating the gifting was to let people sell the gold for crowns so ZoS will be able to make even more money from crown store.

Source?

idk

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.

To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.

At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.

We have a concrete answer to Zos permitting trading crowns for gold. Gina has said it is permitted without issue when someone trades a crown store items for gold. That is really all that matters and it is very concrete.

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.

Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.

Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?

Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.

Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.

Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.

Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.

Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.

But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.

But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.

Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.

Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.

Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.

Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.

It merely means Zos did not intend for those items to be gifted. We can read a lot info that but it is meaningless to do so as I am pretty sure none of us can read their minds.

I agree, none of us can read there minds, so how things "appear" to us personally is meaningless. I definitely agree.

Yes. What we do know if gifting crown items for gold is acceptable behavior. Which means speculation that Zos never intended trading crown items for gold is meaningless. Glad you agree with that.

Yup speculation of whether it was intend or not is definitely meaningless, I definitely do agree with that.

Exactly my point. As you sad. speculation about if Zos intended it or not is meaningless which is exactly my point. Glad you agree since your first post in this thread seemed to indicate otherwise.

No, it seemed to indicate that if it was on their white board of "Things the Gifting Crown Items System Should Include", transactions between players exchanging crowns or crown items for gold were probably not written on their. But yes, it is meaningless to speculate on any aspect of this considering we have no data on that.

The data we do have, is that ZOS doesn't mind that players gift, then their buddy trades them gold. But they have yet to add that as a built in feature however many years later, even for the items that CAN be sold via transaction. So occam's razor seems to apply here.

Exactly. You are speculating just as I was. My opinion on the matter is not more or less valid that yours. So we agree. Glad we had this discussion.

If you are suggesting there is validity in your opinion I will ask for a link to your source on a statement from Zos.

idk

The thread is about requesting a secure way to trade crowns for gold. The discussion questioning if Zos was aware or intended these types of transaction would occur or not is rather irrelevant and moot as it is a legitimate trade that Zos has specifically stated is permitted and that is all that matters.

We can have our opinions, and that is all good, but lets keep the discussion on topic.

Juhasow

Goregrinder wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.

I am pretty sure main reason for creating the gifting was to let people sell the gold for crowns so ZoS will be able to make even more money from crown store.

Source?

Brain. Your source ?

Like seriously You're so naive to belive that ZoS known for their love to easy money making methods would not think about fact that with gifting people will be able to trade gold for crows ? When everyone else figured it out the same day gifting was announced ? ZoS like every other MMO producer have team of people responsible for finding methods to squeeze money from the game and You really think they wouldnt notice what gifting will become or that they wouldn't be able to come up with the idea of gifting ? Are people really that naive these days ?