Refreshing Path viable in pvp?

OWLTHEMAD

New to the forum guys, wanted to know how the lot of you feel about refreshing path in pvp. As a hot its pretty strong but because of its application difficult to use, are you getting any mileage out of it? How do you implement it jn your overall pvp strategy? Any tweaks you would ask for?

Iskiab

Yup, it's so so in pvp.

Issues:
- area is too small
- hot doesn't linger when someone moves out of the path. The break even point with an ability like combat prayer is 4 ticks, people usually only get 2
- major expedition is useful in groups

In general, outside niche healer specs it's bad.

Oakmontowls_ESO

They really should add the increased area from twisting path to refreshing path.

OWLTHEMAD

I decided to post because using it in combo, i have had some success using it as a speed buff and heal in combat, but as usual bar space is a problem. I was wondering if anyone had setups that successfuly made use of it. I feel like it should be similar to bolstering darkness where you just pass over it for the effects to last the duration. In one on one combat its great to move in circles around your opponent and keep passing over it for the buff. Doesnt feel like a very nightblade style though and niche to be sure.

Iskiab

Here's one spec I used it in. Niche Cyrodiil group healing pvp spec:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=188693

idk

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

They really should add the increased area from twisting path to refreshing path.

and considering the changes they have made to the morphs that would have made sense. Surprising Zos did not think of that.

OWLTHEMAD

idk wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

They really should add the increased area from twisting path to refreshing path.

and considering the changes they have made to the morphs that would have made sense. Surprising Zos did not think of that.

I dont like talking smack about the developers just as a rule, but, No. No its not surprising.

Iskiab

idk wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

They really should add the increased area from twisting path to refreshing path.

and considering the changes they have made to the morphs that would have made sense. Surprising Zos did not think of that.

I’d prefer that the hot lingered after leaving the path. A larger size would be better then now, don’t get me wrong, but other healing abilities would still be better then path.

One of the reasons I dropped NB was the class is tied to underwhelming abilities to proc the shadow passive. It ended up being a negative. Having one good shadow ability would do wonders for the class.

You can use dark cloak to proc the passives but really you lose Shadowy Disguise, so why play a rogue class that doesn’t play like a rogue and has poor self healing to boot.

OWLTHEMAD

Iskiab wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

They really should add the increased area from twisting path to refreshing path.

and considering the changes they have made to the morphs that would have made sense. Surprising Zos did not think of that.

I’d prefer that the hot lingered after leaving the path. A larger size would be better then now, don’t get me wrong, but other healing abilities would still be better then path.

One of the reasons I dropped NB was the class is tied to underwhelming abilities to proc the shadow passive. It ended up being a negative. Having one good shadow ability would do wonders for the class.

Well cloak is a great ability lol. But otherwise if you use concealed as your spammable youll keep 100% uptime when you need it. The issue is having a melee magblade setup that works. I havent been able to find a spec i like for that compared to the advantages of running swallow soul.

Lokey0024

Found a little success when pushing in XvX after dropping Rune for group ult dumps. Combined with ER and lights champ it's good. Niche group play

tsaescishoeshiner

I use it in Cyrodiil to push zergs through doors and breaches - it's the perfect skill for it.

Only other way I've used it is for heal tanking, where you just stand still and stack HoT's :~p moderately effective

Iskiab

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I use it in Cyrodiil to push zergs through doors and breaches - it's the perfect skill for it.

Only other way I've used it is for heal tanking, where you just stand still and stack HoT's :~p moderately effective

Heal tanking gets less and less effective the better the players you’re against. It can be done on a templar, but on a magblade you’re literally an onslaught or major defile away from death doing it. I’ve tried stacking 4 hots and it just isn’t effective.

Plus don’t forget refreshing path doesn’t proc transmutation.

Xvorg

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

They really should add the increased area from twisting path to refreshing path.

and considering the changes they have made to the morphs that would have made sense. Surprising Zos did not think of that.

I’d prefer that the hot lingered after leaving the path. A larger size would be better then now, don’t get me wrong, but other healing abilities would still be better then path.

One of the reasons I dropped NB was the class is tied to underwhelming abilities to proc the shadow passive. It ended up being a negative. Having one good shadow ability would do wonders for the class.

Well cloak is a great ability lol. But otherwise if you use concealed as your spammable youll keep 100% uptime when you need it. The issue is having a melee magblade setup that works. I havent been able to find a spec i like for that compared to the advantages of running swallow soul.

On PvP Cloak is not thaaat good, unless you go against a potato. Good players know how to counter it, and that's why the skill itself can be absolutley good or a wasted slot.

OWLTHEMAD

Xvorg wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

They really should add the increased area from twisting path to refreshing path.

and considering the changes they have made to the morphs that would have made sense. Surprising Zos did not think of that.

I’d prefer that the hot lingered after leaving the path. A larger size would be better then now, don’t get me wrong, but other healing abilities would still be better then path.

One of the reasons I dropped NB was the class is tied to underwhelming abilities to proc the shadow passive. It ended up being a negative. Having one good shadow ability would do wonders for the class.

Well cloak is a great ability lol. But otherwise if you use concealed as your spammable youll keep 100% uptime when you need it. The issue is having a melee magblade setup that works. I havent been able to find a spec i like for that compared to the advantages of running swallow soul.

On PvP Cloak is not thaaat good, unless you go against a potato. Good players know how to counter it, and that's why the skill itself can be absolutley good or a wasted slot.

I think just as good players know how to counter it, i think good players can also draw a tremendous amount of utility out of it. What i think a lot of novice nightblades and non nightblades dont realise is that its not an i win button and use it effectively you really need to capitalize on movement and confusion. I use it repeatedly in a fight to proc shadow barrier even if im not trying to hide. An opponent that keeps disappearing in a fight is frustrating and frustrated enemies are clumsy. If cloak is countered (innerlight, pots, or aoes doesnt matter)you just need to create some distance or go full aggression depending on who your fighting. Some use shade, i like to use triple swift trait on jewelry. Pair this refreshing, and at least in one on one or evenly balanced group fights youll be slippery as hell. Only problem there is bar space and the loss of an offensive tool. I always save stamina to roll dodge when cloak fails me so i can create distance. My only real problem is not being able to drop concealed weapon from my build. If i could then i think refreshing or even twisting might actually see usage in pvp.

ExistingRug61

I actually used to use refreshing path quite a bit, and still do, on melee magblade. I have always found it to be a versatile skill with quite a lot of niche applications.

I think given any one particular purpose, there will always be a skill that is better than refreshing path.

But path does more than one thing, as opposed to most other NB skills that are now fairly singular in purpose following the redundancy removal in recent patches. Bar space has always been an issue for me and it was a way of including a speed buff that also could supplement healing (which I often found needed), as opposed to just using something like RAT.

I think because I often used it my playstyle has also adapted to get the most out of it. I don't just use it as an escape and quickly run off it. Rather I try to always have path down and be constantly moving on and off it so the expedition uptime is high. It also means if I do choose to disengage I should already have expedition so don't need to waste a gcd getting it and can use a different defensive skill instead. Or I'd do something like dodgeroll through my existing path to refresh the speed, pick up a small heal and bail. In this situation I also often circle back to the path once successfully cloaked as it is a way of picking up some more heals without breaking cloak.

Other instances I have found it useful are:
- pushing through breaches
- being a sustainable source of major expedition when you get "stuck in combat" and have to run the whole way between keeps, as you effectively get 6+ sec of expedition if you just run straight along it and its not too expensive.
- putting it on flags while defending, as it is a ground heal it will heal npcs (smart heals never seem to target them?) which can be useful in low pop fights where keeping the npcs alive is helpful.
- previously when it did damage it was also an anti-cloak ability, but this is no longer the case.
All of this is fairly niche though.

Still, its not a particularly great skill, but versatile. A larger area, a linger on the heal, or some new synergy I think would really make the skill a bit more balanced with other options.

OWLTHEMAD

Would love to see your gear and bar settup. Could never wrap my head around melee magblade. Always felt like you give up too much going melee and would love to toy with that kind of settup. The ones i see online only seem to look good for cutting potatoes.

ExistingRug61

My setups have been changing a bit recently, can't seem to settle on something
But generally at the moment I have
Front: Soul Harvest, Lotus, Concealed, Cloak, and then some combination of siphoning strikes/fear/shade/merciless
Back: Tether, Swallow, Radiating Regen, Refreshing, Crippling and then a flex for whatever didn't fit on the front bar.

Bar space is a real issue. Especially because I am effectively running two spammables so I have a ranged option for when melee is not viable.

Previous patch structured entropy was strong so I was using that on backbar instead of crippling so had crippling on front bar with inner light. (as this meant I could use trash mag/health pots or tripots). The issue with that setup was that the only hard CC I had outside of tether was cloak>concealed which is difficult to land against several classes (sorcs mainly) or in general when there is lots of AoE.

Now entropy is not great so I've dropped that which means I will use spell power/crit pots again, so inner light isn't needed on front bar as much, and crippling grasp replaces entropy on the back bar. This opened up some options on the front bar, but one of them probably has to be siphoning stirkes to make sure I get magicka flood on front bar.

I find being in melee needs good stam sustain so I have been running amberplasm + a damage set (either caluurion or spinners most of the time) and full swift jewellery. Stats aren't good enough to make a shield worthwhile so I leave or die by good HoT uptime, speed and evasion.

I'll be the first to admit this sort of setup isn't great in a stand up fight against a lot of tankier setups or better players as it doesn't have great damage as you are right you have to give some up for sustain to be in melee. But I do enjoy the challenge of it and when playing it I tended to play on the edges of battles in cyrodiil as it is good at being able to do some damage at range, then jump into melee to finish and then get out again.

OWLTHEMAD

Interesting, i cant imagine thats an easy setup to run. I would take a look at icy conjuror for your settup now that dots have been smashed. May pair well with caluurion.

ExistingRug61

Yeah I have it as well and had tried it in the past as it procs off lotus and it is a strong dot.

Having both really makes it hard to get stats and regen to acceptable amounts though and makes you completely reliant on the procs.

And of the two I find caluurion the stronger due to its burstiness and shorter cool down, although I do like the pen you get from icy.

OWLTHEMAD

Have you tried using infused regen on jewelry? Always treated me well for sustain. Though i do understand the value of triple swift. My own settup is brightthroat and crafty alfiq with triple swift and regen enchantments. Lover mundus, with spell damage enchant on back bar brp. I proc spell damage on back bar with the magicka steal version of cripple and light attack, then. Lotus, fear, soulharvest/bow proc, spam swallow, then finish with execute. Same settup could work with melee, probably better because you clear up barspace from swallow soul. And there you could put refreshing path on back bar with radiating regen and healing ward. I dont use siphoning in pvp because light attacks dont weave as well in lag. Waisted bar slot. I repeatedly reapply heals and cloak during an engagement for defensive purposes.

Bullseyebudx

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

New to the forum guys, wanted to know how the lot of you feel about refreshing path in pvp. As a hot its pretty strong but because of its application difficult to use, are you getting any mileage out of it? How do you implement it jn your overall pvp strategy? Any tweaks you would ask for?

It was viable a year or two ago when it dealt damage and healed.

Then they removed the damage and people stopped using it and then forum posts starting popping up about it.