Vestige immortal?

FabresFour

So, basically, is Vestige immortal?

Even after regaining his soul, he is still composed of Azure Plasm, as all vestige. Does this imply that even after reuniting with his soul, he remains immortal?

MasterSpatula

Effectively, yes. I’m sure there’s a loophole somewhere, but no telling what it is.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

He wouldn't be the first hero to cheat death to a degree.

The Nerevarine did too. He's said to have gone an expedition to Akavir after the event of TES3, but there is no reason he couldn't still be alive during the events of TES5, regardless of race.

Aigym_Hlervu

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Effectively, yes. I’m sure there’s a loophole somewhere, but no telling what it is.

That loopholes are called Wayshrines. There is a book to read. Direnni was right - those wayshrines allow us to teleport and they prevent us from banishment back to Oblivion after death. There are only three ways to ressurect for us - wayshrines, captured souls and Soul Summons passive ability. So in order to kill a Vestige you need to destroy or turn off the braziers of all the wayshrines, to deprive him of all his soul gems and to kill him twice if he knows how to summon souls. Quite an uneasy task.

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

He wouldn't be the first hero to cheat death to a degree.

The Nerevarine did too. He's said to have gone an expedition to Akavir after the event of TES3, but there is no reason he couldn't still be alive during the events of TES5, regardless of race.

The most funny thing I've read on this was stated in the Imperial Pocket Guide to the Empire, 3rd Edition under the Article The Temple: Morrowind: "Dagoth Ur and two members of the Tribunal, Almalexia and Sotha Sil, were destroyed in the Nerevarine's fury". Damned Imperial scientists. They've found two bodies laying down there and think they may lay down the law we killed Sil! Filthy liars..

Ilsabet

Bangkorai spoilers:

Septima Tharn figures out that she can lure the Vestige to an afterlife-type realm (the Far Shores) so that they will be severed from their soul back in Coldharbour. If Septima had succeeded in killing the Vestige there, it would have been permanent. So that's one way to do it.

Presumably that's not an option after the Vestige's soul is restored though.

Relevant lorebooks:

"Death" of Morphotypical Entities
Chaotic Creatia: The Azure Plasm

Aigym_Hlervu

Ilsabet wrote: »

Bangkorai spoilers:

Septima Tharn figures out that she can lure the Vestige to an afterlife-type realm (the Far Shores) so that they will be severed from their soul back in Coldharbour. If Septima had succeeded in killing the Vestige there, it would have been permanent. So that's one way to do it.

Presumably that's not an option after the Vestige's soul is restored though.

Relevant lorebooks:

"Death" of Morphotypical Entities
Chaotic Creatia: The Azure Plasm

Thank you, @Ilsabet! New interesting books to read is always a pleasure!

RebornV3x

Would trapping the Vestige in a black soul gem and being sent to the Soul Carin count also with the Vestiges soul back could he die of natural causes or old age...

Squidgaurd

Yah

RaddlemanNumber7

The player character emerges from the Wailing Prison as an immortal agent of The Divine.

This is why I think that. I've put it in a spoiler in case you want to work it all out for yourself:

Becoming an immortal is a three stage process for the player character:

1. Born as a mortal, but also as a paragon of the Heart of Nirn - as suggested by Doctor Rhythandius in Chaotic Creatia: The Azure Plasm (this book is linked above - read it if you want to understand this).
2. Killed by Mannimarco. Physical remains utterly consumed. Soul trapped and then subsumed by Molag Bal. Their last remaining echo turned into a daedric-style vestige, and then dipped into the azure plasm to create a soul shriven body. But it's still a "paragon" vestige with some super powers, including the ability to form a body immediately.
3. Absorbs a Skyshard. Re-attunes with Nirn (and with the Spirit of Nirn). Effectively ceases to be a soul shriven with a vestige. The Aetherial magicka of the skyshard gives the player character a divine Anuic focus that acts as a substitute for their lost mortal soul. Thereby becomes an immortal agent of The Divine...

The player character's name "The Vestige" is accurate when the Prophet first uses it in the Wailing Prison, but once they have absorbed that first skyshard it is a complete misnomer. I think this misnomer is a characteristic piece of misdirection that points a finger directly at the Divine whom the player character serves - Lorkhan the "Missing" god. It also helps players make up their own mind about what's going on (or not).

Sure, the Vestige starts out in their cell in the Wailing Prison as a soul shriven vestige that has been dipped in the azure plasm of Coldharbour, but that is only relevant up to the point when the Prophet says:



and then this happens:



Ecstasy. But no Epiphany you'll notice (more misdirection by the Missing God of Creation, and more player choice).

The Prophet's important words here are "Aetherial magicka", "essence of Nirn" and "Lorkhan". Of course, players are free to interpret these words as they wish, or to choose to ignore them, or to completely fail to grasp their significance, but for me they can only add up to one thing - from that point onwards the player character is entirely an agent of The Divine. For me the reference to Lorkhan, aka the Spirit of Nirn, means that the Vestige is in fact a Shezzarine, like Pelinal Whitestrake, Ysmir and eventually Talos.

Wayshrines also point to the player character's special relationship with the Divine. The primary function of Wayshrines on Tamriel is to act as shrines to the divine in one guise or another, as places of worship, not as respawn points for "dead" player characters. The player character is also able to port to wayshrines. In TES III this is called "Divine Intervention".

There is now some very clear in-game corroboration that the player character is not a soul shriven vestige of Coldharbour:
Elsweyr spoiler:

When the soul shriven Cadwell is killed we get to see what happens when a real soul shriven dies. His vestige returns to the plane of Coldharbour and ends up back in the azure plasm. That does not happen to the player character when they die. "The Vestige" cannot respawn in the azure plasm.

The return of the Vestige's mortal soul is shown in-game to be irrelevant to the Vestige's status as an immortal. It makes no difference whatsoever to the Vestige's experience of "death". It is evident that the player character's original soul is completely eclipsed by the far-stronger divine Anuic focus gained from skyshards.

Bankorai spoiler:
The theory that Septima Tharn has about the Vestige being vulnerable in Aetherius therefore seems certain to be a mistake. The Vestige's soul is not what's keeping them alive. I've never actually taken the trouble to let her kill me on the Far Shores. Maybe next time I'll give it a go. I'm sure she will be proved wrong.

I have no doubt that the Vestige is an immortal agent of the Divine, but of course, for your characters the choice is entirely yours.

Danikat

I've been wondering about this recently too. I think it seems likely that the Vestige cannot be killed, but I'm not sure about aging and dying of old age. As I understand it there's a concious element to the reforming, definitely for daedra but possibly for soul shriven too - your mental image of yourself affects the body which is created. So if the Vestige is feeling older, or knows they're getting older maybe they'll start looking older, and eventually if they believe themselves to be mortal the idea that sooner or later their death will be permenant could prevent them reforming.

Of course that could be different for each Vestige, based on their perception of themselves and what happened to them. Take Cadwell for example, he was originally human and if he was mortal he should be long dead, but he seems to ignore the passage of time just like he ignores the horrors of Coldharbour and anything else he finds inconvinient.

(It would certainly help with my 'playing the same character in every TES game' tradition - the ESO one would be the first, and if she's immortal there's no reason she couldn't have gone through all the other games too.)

Ilsabet wrote: »

Bangkorai spoilers:

Septima Tharn figures out that she can lure the Vestige to an afterlife-type realm (the Far Shores) so that they will be severed from their soul back in Coldharbour. If Septima had succeeded in killing the Vestige there, it would have been permanent. So that's one way to do it.

Presumably that's not an option after the Vestige's soul is restored though.

Relevant lorebooks:

"Death" of Morphotypical Entities
Chaotic Creatia: The Azure Plasm

In case anyone's wondering this only applies in lore, if she kills you during that fight you're still able to ressurect just like you can anywhere else, there is absolutely no acknowledgement in game mechanics that it's any different to any other part of the game.

Which is disappointing from a lore perspective, but handy when your mouse software suddenly decides it doesn't know which profile to use and reverts to the default so all the skills you have bound to mouse buttons stop working in the middle of the fight.

Sailor_Palutena

The good thing on immortality is that we can hope to see the years passing by. I really wish to 'play' Morrowind from ESO perspective and help the Nerevarine to accomplish his destiny,