DEVELOPER DEEP DIVE – LET’S TALK ABOUT CLASS IDENTITY - feedback from a StamDK

Skoomah

Is anyone going to bring up the fact that Stonefist misses a lot?

Huge strain on sustain. Hard to fit into a rotation and combo. Making it bad for PvP, maybe great for predictable and stationary PVE mobs...

Ragnarock41

Skoomah wrote: »

Is anyone going to bring up the fact that Stonefist misses a lot?

Huge strain on sustain. Hard to fit into a rotation and combo. Making it bad for PvP, maybe great for predictable and stationary PVE mobs...

I bringed it out repeatedly for 4+ weeks and I was repeatedly told by PvE players that I'm nitpicking and yada yada

Davadin

Skoomah wrote: »

Is anyone going to bring up the fact that Stonefist misses a lot?

Huge strain on sustain. Hard to fit into a rotation and combo. Making it bad for PvP, maybe great for predictable and stationary PVE mobs...

doesn't miss more than my other spammables. people dodges stuff like no tomorrow in CP PvP.....


either way, it IS bad for PvP no matter what.

Ragnarock41

Davadin wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Is anyone going to bring up the fact that Stonefist misses a lot?

Huge strain on sustain. Hard to fit into a rotation and combo. Making it bad for PvP, maybe great for predictable and stationary PVE mobs...

doesn't miss more than my other spammables. people dodges stuff like no tomorrow in CP PvP.....


either way, it IS bad for PvP no matter what.

It doesn't miss more than other ranged projectiles, but it doesn't have full range so Its not really a ranged spammable either.

In my honest opinion, the best way to make stonefist viable and RELIABLE in PvP without completely reworking it(cause lets be real, they're not removing stagger or the stun. that ship has sailed), is to make it a melee AoE , (possible a small cone like brawler or ideally make it work like deep slash) so the stagger effect can be applied to multiple opponents at the same time but its limited because its melee ranged.

That way the tiny damage bonus of stonefist could have more meaning in PvP, the potential of getting AoE stuns out of spamming your spammable would truly fit the class theme.

Davadin

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Is anyone going to bring up the fact that Stonefist misses a lot?

Huge strain on sustain. Hard to fit into a rotation and combo. Making it bad for PvP, maybe great for predictable and stationary PVE mobs...

doesn't miss more than my other spammables. people dodges stuff like no tomorrow in CP PvP.....


either way, it IS bad for PvP no matter what.

It doesn't miss more than other ranged projectiles, but it doesn't have full range so Its not really a ranged spammable either.

In my honest opinion, the best way to make stonefist viable and RELIABLE in PvP without completely reworking it(cause lets be real, they're not removing stagger or the stun. that ship has sailed), is to make it a melee AoE , (possible a small cone like brawler or ideally make it work like deep slash) so the stagger effect can be applied to multiple opponents at the same time but its limited because its melee ranged.

That way the tiny damage bonus of stonefist could have more meaning in PvP, the potential of getting AoE stuns out of spamming your spammable would truly fit the class theme.

*** yes.

@ZOS_GinaBruno let this be known. make Stonefist (small cone) AoE and ZOS will be praised by all the DK throughout Tamriel!

update: just make it the same cone like Noxious Breath....

On another note, been playing all sort of PvE last few weeks, and honestly, my second biggest complaint with this skill is definitely the animation. it's awkward to weave and actually takes some good "casting time" even though the tooltip says Instant. Yes, this is before the projectile left my fist..... It's literally the arm-swinging back animation is too clunky and long.... it's just such a poor animation.


first complaint is, and has always been, the cost.

SHANKS_63

I was playing a stamdk, but did not fall in love with stonefist. I have switched to a magdk and have been enjoying it other than the insane cost of eruption for how little dmg it does, and lack of dot dmg in general. The thing I still find it fascinating, is that a magdk seems more forced to be in melee range than a stamdk. <Queue broken record> Seems that magdk would have a more long ranged spammable and stamdk a more melee ranged spammable. Just my thoughts.

Ragnarock41

SHANKS_63 wrote: »

I was playing a stamdk, but did not fall in love with stonefist. I have switched to a magdk and have been enjoying it other than the insane cost of eruption for how little dmg it does, and lack of dot dmg in general. The thing I still find it fascinating, is that a magdk seems more forced to be in melee range than a stamdk. <Queue broken record> Seems that magdk would have a more long ranged spammable and stamdk a more melee ranged spammable. Just my thoughts.

Quoting Zenimax here:

Do you have any plans on strengthening the arsenal for Stam versions of each class with their respective class abilities?
Yes, we’re looking at making Stamina builds within class kits viable. However, we are more interested in providing Melee vs. Ranged playstyles within class kits. If this results in some abilities being based on Stamina, Magicka or Health usage, we’re open to those possibilities.

So basically this is why they've been pushing ranged spammables on melee classes, the mentality behind stonefist I'm assuming. Its kinda comical because stonefist is neither a proper ranged spammable, nor a melee one.

The last two bow/bow stamDks on planet earth , (assuming they didn't reroll bowblade yet) will stick to lethal arrow because Its cheaper and hits MUCH harder while synergizing with asylum bow in PvP, and the melee stamDks will stick to weapon spammables because they work better.

Overall Its the worst case possible for both meta and off-build stamDk. They made NOBODY but the top %1 PvE players happy.

In my opinion, a class doesn't need a melee spammable to be fun. Stamden, stamplar,stamblade,stamsorc, they're all fun to play and unique in their own way. Some of them don't have melee spammables like stamden/stamsorc but they have burst skills , great mobility, tons of build paths and overall strong class themes. You bring them to the open world and they just work naturally, you don't have to fill most of your bar with overpriced magicka abilities that aren't even meant for you, and rest of it with weapon skills when playing other stamina classes.

The only class based stamina skill I currently use on my stamDk is noxious breath, for getting major fracture. Rest of the class skills I use are cauterize, volatile armor, fragmented shield. All magicka abilities. I would like to also use wings but I literally can not afford it no bar space or sustain left for it.

I'm sure PvE players still use FoO and claws, but thats still a big failure in my opinion. Class passives are also a meme at this point, the ridicilous cost increase to class dots and the high cost of stonefist begs the question:

If you're gonna give us such high costs, why even have cost reduction passives? Aren't they just placeholders at this point? Why have word in ruin? Why have helping hands?