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Glass Motif in the Crown Store - Discussion - Counter Argument - Solutions
Elloa
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Hello everyone,
I'd like to have a constructive discussion regarding what happend this week with the introduction of the Glass Motif in the Crown Store.
In this post I'm going to share my opinion regarding this, and why I think it's wrong. I'll explain my point of view regarding some of the most common counter argument from the pro-Crown Store. And finaly I'll give some suggestions of solutions to make this better/ more fair for everyone, both Zenimax and the players.
I hope to keep this discussion constructive and positive (aiming for a better future)
First of all, this is the video where I share in less than 4 min my opinion regarding the addition of the Glass motif in the Crown store.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3ozbAg_Fbo
I also recommand you to listen to @Evarwyn special "Elder Scrolls Off The Record" episode regarding this. He is explaining in details why the difficult and very long grind of the Glass motif is fuelling players towards the crown store. >> Glass Motif Crown Store Controversy, explained
Argument1: The Grind was too long.
Yes indeed! To get the Glass motif is extremly hard. It requiere time, dedication and gold.
This can be a good thing. The Glass style is something iconic, a lot of diehard fan of Elder Scrolls game would be happy to have. To have a very hard style to obtain can give a purpose, a "end game" challenge for Crafters and Traders. Do not forget that not every players enjoy the same thing. For some players crafting and Trading is their thing. They also need some love, and some goal that are challenging to achieve. Once they manage to get the challenge done, it's a great reward to be one of the few capable to craft the Glass Motif. And they can make gold out of this! For Traders, the rare materials are a great occasion for them to enjoy their favourite game aswell. Also, it give a purpose, a reason for players to do their crafting writs every day. It bring back dynamisn and purpose to the game.
BUT, if the grind is made in such a way to discourage players because it takes too much effort, and then offer them the "convenience" of getting the Motif in the Store instead, then it's wrong. It's borderline with the scam. This is really pushing players towards the Crown Store, and that's a super lame and greedy tactic. It's not ethic.
Argument2: Zenimax is a buisness, not a charity
I totally agree with that. I'm okay with Zenimax charging lots of Crown for pets, mount, costumes and even some consumables. I'm regularly purchasing items from the crown store, that I even promote by sharing screenshots and videos. I'm a good customer, and I bring my support to the game with 2 subscriptions (1 for me, 1 for my boyfriend), and 3 active account (2 on PC, 1 on PS4).
But I'm not okay with non ethic strategy to gain more money. It become greedy and ugly. A good buisness is a honnest buisness. Once it start to be dodgy, it looks more like scam or thievery, and I can never agree with that.
Argument3: It's only a Cosmetic item
Well, no. While to be dressed with Glass style instead of Nord style is indeed cometic, to find the fragment in Crafting Writs, or the Malachite shards in chest in Imperial City is not Cosmetic. It's part of the crafting and the trading. As those items are very rare, they are very valuable. And players can make lots of money in game for this. To add those item in the Crown Store, strongly decrease the value of those items, and affect the in game economy. Also the Crafters that had invested time and gold to be one of the few Crafters capable to craft the glass motifs are now (sorry for the expression) completely screwed, as it will not be as rare and valuable to be a Glass crafter considering it's in the Crown Store.
There is not only PVP and PVE in this game. And every sort of players deserve to be respected and treated well. As much as class imbalance break PVP and PVE, stuff like that break Crafting and Trading. This should not happen.
Argument4: The price is ridiculously high
Lots of poeple are saying the price is high. 5000 is twice the price of the DLC Imperial City. You need 4 months of subscriptions to be able to afford the motif. 5500 cost 34 €. Yes it's a lot of money, when you do not consider every aspect of the question.
A lot of suscribers have gathered crowns and not used them. 5000 is not much to spare. A lot of players are quite comfortable with money, and enough crazy about Elder Scrolls to spare 5000 crown for their favourite motif.
BUT most of it, players that are purchasing the motif quite early, will save several weeks, or months of grind. They can even make a bunch of gold selling their crafting services or the shard and fragment they may have find and do not need anymore. For this reason only 5000 crown is really a good deal.
Argument5: This beneficiate casual players
That's my favourite one, cause it actually harm casual players more than anyone else.
"Some players have a life". "Some players do not have the time but have more money"
First of all that argument is totally unfair and a bit arrogant. Not every "poor player" have lots of time. Some "poor players" (or player that do not want to use money on a game) have a life. And sometimes, a hard one with that.
But no matter, it doesn't change the fact than paying with real life money something very hard to achieve in game is not totally fair. For every kind of players. Rich and Poor, hardcore and casual.
Also, let me tell you that "casual" players here are completely screwed. They have zero chance to hope to get the glass motif, being a competitive crafter without purchasing it in the Crown Store. Only the most dedicated crafter and trader had the chance in those three weeks to get the Glass motif the natural way. They had to farm their a** off, in imperial City, with several crafters, and buy pieces from other players for ridiculous prices.
All the casual players that were actually working on getting the motif, investing the few hours by week they have in the process are totally screwed by this. Cause they will never make their investissment back. They have just wasted their time. For nothing.
Also, Console players only had 1 poor little week to get a chance to get the motif.
Argument 6: By purchasing the motif, I'm supporting Zenimax to do more content for us to enjoy.
Nope. All you do is encouraging Zenimax to continue in that way. Make very desirable items extremly hard to get in game, and then see them conveniently placed in the Crown Store. This will just destroy the game more. You are not helping.
Vote with your wallet and do not buy the Motif. Buy the DLC instead. That's how you will help the game to continue in the right direction and not the wrong one.
SOLUTIONS Proposed for Zenimax
For next time
In future, please let's several months for players to have a chance to get the motif in game. I know your goal is to obtain money, but what you did this time was unfair, and left a sour taste in the mouth of many.
For example, the Glass Motif come with Imperial City? Well, put it in the Crown Store when Orsinium come out. When there is new stuff to aspire too. So the "old one" is obtainable in the Crown Store, but players had a fair chance to get it in game, make some gold out of it, brag about their achievement, and have something to look forward. Other players will have their chance to get that motif the easy way later. But let sometimes for those that have worked for it to enjoy the fruits of their labour!
Regarding the Glass Motif
Right now. A lot of players are pissed off. Not everyone, but a large part. As Evarwyn suggested in his podcast, increasing the drop rate and the chance to obtain those items would be a great compensation for all those players that have started to gather the shards and fragments, but had not the time to finish to gather enough before it was released in the Crown Store. That will soften the pain of having lose so much time and effort for nothing.
Nope?
Don't like the two solutions I proposed? Then be straight honnest. "We want you to buy the motif in the crown store, but to be fair for players that can not or do not want to afford it, we also have added it in the game. But it will be hard to get." No need to pretend in that case, and then just put the damn motif in the same time in the store. Atleast we know what's happening. Can seem rude, but it's at least honnest. And I prefer that.
I'd like to have a constructive discussion regarding what happend this week with the introduction of the Glass Motif in the Crown Store.
In this post I'm going to share my opinion regarding this, and why I think it's wrong. I'll explain my point of view regarding some of the most common counter argument from the pro-Crown Store. And finaly I'll give some suggestions of solutions to make this better/ more fair for everyone, both Zenimax and the players.
I hope to keep this discussion constructive and positive (aiming for a better future)
First of all, this is the video where I share in less than 4 min my opinion regarding the addition of the Glass motif in the Crown store.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3ozbAg_FboI also recommand you to listen to @Evarwyn special "Elder Scrolls Off The Record" episode regarding this. He is explaining in details why the difficult and very long grind of the Glass motif is fuelling players towards the crown store. >> Glass Motif Crown Store Controversy, explained
Argument1: The Grind was too long.
Yes indeed! To get the Glass motif is extremly hard. It requiere time, dedication and gold.
This can be a good thing. The Glass style is something iconic, a lot of diehard fan of Elder Scrolls game would be happy to have. To have a very hard style to obtain can give a purpose, a "end game" challenge for Crafters and Traders. Do not forget that not every players enjoy the same thing. For some players crafting and Trading is their thing. They also need some love, and some goal that are challenging to achieve. Once they manage to get the challenge done, it's a great reward to be one of the few capable to craft the Glass Motif. And they can make gold out of this! For Traders, the rare materials are a great occasion for them to enjoy their favourite game aswell. Also, it give a purpose, a reason for players to do their crafting writs every day. It bring back dynamisn and purpose to the game.
BUT, if the grind is made in such a way to discourage players because it takes too much effort, and then offer them the "convenience" of getting the Motif in the Store instead, then it's wrong. It's borderline with the scam. This is really pushing players towards the Crown Store, and that's a super lame and greedy tactic. It's not ethic.
Argument2: Zenimax is a buisness, not a charity
I totally agree with that. I'm okay with Zenimax charging lots of Crown for pets, mount, costumes and even some consumables. I'm regularly purchasing items from the crown store, that I even promote by sharing screenshots and videos. I'm a good customer, and I bring my support to the game with 2 subscriptions (1 for me, 1 for my boyfriend), and 3 active account (2 on PC, 1 on PS4).
But I'm not okay with non ethic strategy to gain more money. It become greedy and ugly. A good buisness is a honnest buisness. Once it start to be dodgy, it looks more like scam or thievery, and I can never agree with that.
Argument3: It's only a Cosmetic item
Well, no. While to be dressed with Glass style instead of Nord style is indeed cometic, to find the fragment in Crafting Writs, or the Malachite shards in chest in Imperial City is not Cosmetic. It's part of the crafting and the trading. As those items are very rare, they are very valuable. And players can make lots of money in game for this. To add those item in the Crown Store, strongly decrease the value of those items, and affect the in game economy. Also the Crafters that had invested time and gold to be one of the few Crafters capable to craft the glass motifs are now (sorry for the expression) completely screwed, as it will not be as rare and valuable to be a Glass crafter considering it's in the Crown Store.
There is not only PVP and PVE in this game. And every sort of players deserve to be respected and treated well. As much as class imbalance break PVP and PVE, stuff like that break Crafting and Trading. This should not happen.
Argument4: The price is ridiculously high
Lots of poeple are saying the price is high. 5000 is twice the price of the DLC Imperial City. You need 4 months of subscriptions to be able to afford the motif. 5500 cost 34 €. Yes it's a lot of money, when you do not consider every aspect of the question.
A lot of suscribers have gathered crowns and not used them. 5000 is not much to spare. A lot of players are quite comfortable with money, and enough crazy about Elder Scrolls to spare 5000 crown for their favourite motif.
BUT most of it, players that are purchasing the motif quite early, will save several weeks, or months of grind. They can even make a bunch of gold selling their crafting services or the shard and fragment they may have find and do not need anymore. For this reason only 5000 crown is really a good deal.
Argument5: This beneficiate casual players
That's my favourite one, cause it actually harm casual players more than anyone else.
"Some players have a life". "Some players do not have the time but have more money"
First of all that argument is totally unfair and a bit arrogant. Not every "poor player" have lots of time. Some "poor players" (or player that do not want to use money on a game) have a life. And sometimes, a hard one with that.
But no matter, it doesn't change the fact than paying with real life money something very hard to achieve in game is not totally fair. For every kind of players. Rich and Poor, hardcore and casual.
Also, let me tell you that "casual" players here are completely screwed. They have zero chance to hope to get the glass motif, being a competitive crafter without purchasing it in the Crown Store. Only the most dedicated crafter and trader had the chance in those three weeks to get the Glass motif the natural way. They had to farm their a** off, in imperial City, with several crafters, and buy pieces from other players for ridiculous prices.
All the casual players that were actually working on getting the motif, investing the few hours by week they have in the process are totally screwed by this. Cause they will never make their investissment back. They have just wasted their time. For nothing.
Also, Console players only had 1 poor little week to get a chance to get the motif.
Argument 6: By purchasing the motif, I'm supporting Zenimax to do more content for us to enjoy.
Nope. All you do is encouraging Zenimax to continue in that way. Make very desirable items extremly hard to get in game, and then see them conveniently placed in the Crown Store. This will just destroy the game more. You are not helping.
Vote with your wallet and do not buy the Motif. Buy the DLC instead. That's how you will help the game to continue in the right direction and not the wrong one.
SOLUTIONS Proposed for Zenimax
For next time
In future, please let's several months for players to have a chance to get the motif in game. I know your goal is to obtain money, but what you did this time was unfair, and left a sour taste in the mouth of many.
For example, the Glass Motif come with Imperial City? Well, put it in the Crown Store when Orsinium come out. When there is new stuff to aspire too. So the "old one" is obtainable in the Crown Store, but players had a fair chance to get it in game, make some gold out of it, brag about their achievement, and have something to look forward. Other players will have their chance to get that motif the easy way later. But let sometimes for those that have worked for it to enjoy the fruits of their labour!
Regarding the Glass Motif
Right now. A lot of players are pissed off. Not everyone, but a large part. As Evarwyn suggested in his podcast, increasing the drop rate and the chance to obtain those items would be a great compensation for all those players that have started to gather the shards and fragments, but had not the time to finish to gather enough before it was released in the Crown Store. That will soften the pain of having lose so much time and effort for nothing.
Nope?
Don't like the two solutions I proposed? Then be straight honnest. "We want you to buy the motif in the crown store, but to be fair for players that can not or do not want to afford it, we also have added it in the game. But it will be hard to get." No need to pretend in that case, and then just put the damn motif in the same time in the store. Atleast we know what's happening. Can seem rude, but it's at least honnest. And I prefer that.
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Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They did it with the Imperial race too. Hid one of the most popular races behind a paywall. In fact, I'm pretty sure they got slated from a few sites for doing that. So it doesn't surprise me they did it with glass armour. For the purpose of balance, though, what did surprise me was the Daedric armour motif was/is relatively easy to get and is fairly cheap to buy by CS standards. Because I'd say that particular armour is more iconic than glass.
I think there's a number of people who overstate how much they love glass armour in TES games, because it's always looked atrocious. Looks nice once the modders do their thing, but in Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim the vanilla armour looked bad.Edited by Prof_Bawbag on September 28, 2015 3:19PM7 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭How much is the glass motif? I can't fire up the game now to check.
Ain't no way I'm paying 5k crowns for a motif. I wonder how many people are like me and too cheap to spend that much on a motif?
Even though ZOS released it in crown store sooner than some might have liked, you might still make your gold from crafting glass because the crown price is high.
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Kuroinu✭✭✭✭✭I agree entirely and this Crown Store is encouraging a lack of creativity on the development side. The current system is not fun, and in my opinion it's by far more fun to gradually work towards something and earn it this way over just clicking to acquire. The Crown Store is going to kill a lot of motivation to play this game, if it's going to be used like this in the future.
This actually lead me to making a thread about additional ways to acquire motifs, fragments and even recipes. If you wish, you can read it here. It's such a simple suggestion and that's why I find it frustrating.5 -
Runaan✭✭✭✭I love her accent, lost myself after listening to her for a couple seconds.
This discussion is over for me.Runaan Fortis
Altmer Sorcerer
Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines.- A Dominion of peace. The fair and just rule of Tamriel12 -
Andarne✭✭✭It's a difficult one for me, in my opinion.
One one side, I don't want to have to grind the IC for the pieces required for a chance to unlock one page of the motif, or to randomly get a piece of the Glass motif from crafting (which, in my opinion, should be limited regionally. Malachite in-lore was most common on Vvardenfell and somewhat in Skyrim).
On the other, it drives the economy forward by being rare, and if I'm lucky to get a piece (to-date, since IC was released I've managed to get 2 pieces of the Xiv motif, and 2 bits of Malachite (refined)) it'll keep my funds up for a short while.
The Crown store is a strange one. When the LotRO Market came around, it was primarily used for Cosmetic purposes. I can't recall there being anything game-breaking or pay-to-win at all. It still allowed crafters to compete in markets and make a living. ESO's store has cheap potions that scale-up, has rare Motifs that drove the price into the ground (remember when you could sell a Dunmer motif for 4k?) and is peddling weird looking cosmetics that, personally, have no place in the world of Tamriel.3 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭I completely agree with Elloa, I was looking forward to working towards and achieving this motif however seeing it on the crown store at such a high price and so soon after release really turns me off from even bothering with it, it actually puts me off from buying future zenimax productions to the point where I'm contemplating cancelling my Fallout 4 pre-order too, the sooner players realise that encouraging this type of microtransaction/pay to win/pay for items that should already be accesible in the game through gameplay and achievement BS is actually detrimental to the gaming industry rather than beneficial, the better.
5000 crowns so that "casual players" can get it too?... c'mon seriously?, if that's not blatent profiteering then I don't know what is. It's an unethical and ugly business practice which shouldn't be supported.
By all means support zenimax for their actual work by buying the DLCs but don't support this type of behaviour because it's not ok and it's not going to end and it's only going to get worse unless we the customers say "no! we won't allow you to turn the industry into one giant BS pay to play system".7 -
Maotti✭✭✭✭✭
✭I bought it as soon as i saw it.
The grind to get the chapters or the whole book is just way too much, good riddance to it.
i hope Zeni don't do this again.
Not the answer you were looking for @Elloa i know.
But if Zenimax hadn't made the grind to get the glass motif so incredibly long i wouldn't buy it in the Crown store.Edited by Maotti on September 28, 2015 3:53PMPC EU4 -
angelyn✭✭✭✭Agree
Most notably the (multiple layers!) of grind introduced with glass motif/style materials, means it can take months/opening atleast 90 chests/8000 mats and 70- 100k gold to obtain ( minimum ) a glass motif and suffient style materials to craft a set.
Once you have the precious motif, then you only need 1190 V16 materials( either bought with TV stones or 1 per mob drop), and 7-9 enchanting runes purchased with TV stones to craft a set. To me it just seems as if the grind was implemented in order to make it so frustrating to obtain, that people would rather buy from the crown store.
In addition, Malachite Shards are crafting materials. I was under the impression that they wouldn't be added to the crown store. Crown store items are not supposed to be better than in game. Show me a chest in game where you can get 10 malachite at once.
The grind was implemented in order to make people flock to the crown store. Extremely transparent. I suspect that VR16 mats may make it into the crown store based on the above. I sincerely hope not.
EDIT: I'm a more casual player and will not buy the motif from the crown store, since I don't agree with introducing multiple layers of ( artificial )grind in order to engineer the situation where people buy from the crown store. ( I dont judge anyone who has bought it, as this is just my opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own)
If they continue doing this sort of thing I will stop my sub , since many moons ago we were told that ZOS wouldn't nerf the drop rates of items in game , so that people go to the crown store. Sure, they haven't nerfed the drops, but it produces the same result. Slippery slope. Edited by angelyn on September 28, 2015 6:44PM10 -
Maotti✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The grind was implemented in order to make people flock to the crown store. Extremely transparent. I suspect that VR16 mats may make it into the crown store based on the above. I sincerely hope not.
Actually, i hope they add nodes to those mats in Orsinium. That the mats as they're implemented now is just one side of the medallion so to speak.
Options, Zenimax. We need them!Edited by Maotti on September 28, 2015 3:56PMPC EU5 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭Maotti_Nor wrote: »I bought it as soon as i saw it.
The grind to get the chapters or the whole book is just way too much, good riddance to it.
i hope Zeni don't do this again.
Not the answer you were looking for @Elloa i know.
But if Zenimax hadn't made the grind to get the glass motif so incredibly long i wouldn't buy it in the Crown store.
That's the whole point of them making the grind so difficult though, it's a pretty nefarious way of forcing people to buy it rather than enjoy working towards it.
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angelyn✭✭✭✭Maotti_Nor wrote: »
The grind was implemented in order to make people flock to the crown store. Extremely transparent. I suspect that VR16 mats may make it into the crown store based on the above. I sincerely hope not.
Actually, i hope they add nodes to those mats in Orsinium. That the mats as they're implemented now is just one side of the medallion so to speak.
Options, Zenimax. We need them!
I hope they introduce nodes, but I've noticed that they have been very careful not to mention the word "nodes" in connection with Orsinium . Perhaps they will do the same as in IC-IE you get 1 crafting material by deconstructing drops from mobs.
Edited by angelyn on September 28, 2015 4:09PM3 -
Saltypretzels✭✭✭✭Motif was released WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY way way way too soon.
It should have been released with Orsinium, like Elloa suggests.9 -
RizaHawkeye✭✭✭✭Riko_Futatabi wrote: »I agree entirely and this Crown Store is encouraging a lack of creativity on the development side. The current system is not fun, and in my opinion it's by far more fun to gradually work towards something and earn it this way over just clicking to acquire. The Crown Store is going to kill a lot of motivation to play this game, if it's going to be used like this in the future.
Agreed. There is no creativity. Everything Zenimax had made since the Crown Store opened has gone into the Crown Store. Everything. I can't see that they're working anything else except crap for the Crown Store.
Yes, even the IC was released as a crown store item.
Zenimax needs to take the glass motif out of the crown store now. Right now.
I'm supposing you probably don't care, Zenimax, but I am so close to cancelling my sub right now.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
The heroes during times of war, are nothing but mass murderers during times of peace.
Riza Hawkeye
Learn to play, or resign to become one of pieces that is meant to be sacrificed.
Meridia6 -
Maotti✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maotti_Nor wrote: »
The grind was implemented in order to make people flock to the crown store. Extremely transparent. I suspect that VR16 mats may make it into the crown store based on the above. I sincerely hope not.
Actually, i hope they add nodes to those mats in Orsinium. That the mats as they're implemented now is just one side of the medallion so to speak.
Options, Zenimax. We need them!
I hope they introduce nodes, but I've noticed that they have been very careful not to mention the word "nodes" in connection with Orsinium . Perhaps they will do the same as in IC-IE you get 1 crafting material by deconstructing drops from mobs.
No, just no. But knowing them they will most probably do it.Edited by Maotti on September 28, 2015 4:16PMPC EU2 -
Surragard✭✭✭✭There is a balance between a grind and just making it obnoxious. The glass armor is not a grind. It was intentionally designed to be so insanely difficult that you would flock to the crown store to purchase it. It's probably a market test to see if they can pull this off in the future. If lot's of people go buy it on the crown store, then they know they can use this strategy in the future.I don't always drink Skooma, but when I do I go to the Southwall Corner Club. May you walk on warm sands my friends.16 -
angelyn✭✭✭✭
^^ THISThere is a balance between a grind and just making it obnoxious. The glass armor is not a grind. It was intentionally designed to be so insanely difficult that you would flock to the crown store to purchase it. It's probably a market test to see if they can pull this off in the future. If lot's of people go buy it on the crown store, then they know they can use this strategy in the future.
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RVikary✭✭Well said Elloa, I agree completely with you on this matter. And I know I'm not the only one.
Just one correction that some people are confusing, it seems. The Malachite Shards are NOT obtained only inside IC. I do not have ESO Plus and did not buy the DLC yet, but I've "already" found 9 shards on random chests and, I believe, even through hirelings. So, even though it is still really hard to get them, they are not only inside the dlc package.
Still, I believe that ZOS made it so difficult to acquire the glass motif to force those with a long standing ESO Plus with enough available crowns to buy them. And that was a really low blow ZOS...really low.
I have decided to simply give up on this motif and any other added afterwards. I'll try to sell my 5 fragments and the 9 shards I got, or give them away to one of my guildies if they'd like.
I might one day give them money for IC, but I'll most likely only buy Orsinium if it has enough content in it.
I hope ZOS starts thinking about the players and giving us good things, instead of creating impossible objectives ingame with "easy" solutions on the Crown Store.Member of Alith
Ebonheart Pact guild, EU server.
Check out our site http://alitheso.com/
Check out our twitter https://twitter.com/AlithESO5 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭They should sell it in the store the price point is actually to low.
The price point is meant to be high enough to discourage casual buyers from stockpiling ESO plus crowns (I would bet if you had access to the internal math, at average end game play the price point and drop rate is roughly equal not taking into account RNG)
As far as I'm concerned styles should always be purchasable for those inclined to spend money. The pricing should be counter productive so it encourages in game farming but buying style books on the crown store is worth it 10 fold. Xvikyn should be in there in to for those with more money then time to play.
How other people choose to support the game is just as relevant as how you choose to. The game is plenty big enough to accommodate all players and styles of support.
Well written post just disagree.Edited by acw37162 on September 28, 2015 4:54PM1 -
Auricle✭✭✭✭✭Maotti_Nor wrote: »I bought it as soon as i saw it.
The grind to get the chapters or the whole book is just way too much, good riddance to it.
i hope Zeni don't do this again.
Not the answer you were looking for @Elloa i know.
But if Zenimax hadn't made the grind to get the glass motif so incredibly long i wouldn't buy it in the Crown store.
This makes me sad. People who dislike these kind of moves by ZoS, but buy the offending item anyway. You're completely negating any power you had in the conversation. In fact, the more people who buy the glass motif, the more likely it is that they'll pull the same crap with the next one.
I understand that you don't want to undergo the grind, but, please, if you hate that ZoS is doing this, do not buy the motif. Just don't do it.8 -
EDS604✭✭✭now i feel bad... bought it yesterday with the thought : "what the heck, i'm not gonna unsub anyway, so i will have access to future dlc's anyway, so might as well spend my crowns on the motif" I love eso, but the arguments that you OP gave, made me think... If I would have read this sooner i would have reconsidered my purchase..PC EU, Guildleader of "Death By Gargoyle".4
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Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maotti_Nor wrote: »I bought it as soon as i saw it.
The grind to get the chapters or the whole book is just way too much, good riddance to it.
i hope Zeni don't do this again.
Not the answer you were looking for @Elloa i know.
But if Zenimax hadn't made the grind to get the glass motif so incredibly long i wouldn't buy it in the Crown store.
^^^This is proof that Zeni strategy worked. Expect to see more of the same kind of obnoxious grinds with future motifs. I've seen lots of posts from those who bought the Glass motif, and since forum users are a fraction of gamer base, I'd guess Zeni is selling a lot of the motifs. This goes along with our general consumer mentality of "I want it now, and I'll pay a premium for it". Companies count on early adopters to splurge. For everyone else, patience will be rewarded when prices come way down and availability goes up. All this fuss is about a vanity item. The new motifs only change appearance.
However, by making obtaining the motif and mats so intolerably grindy, and offering the same in the crown store, Zeni has clearly demonstrated they are willing to manipulate the game, and players enjoyment, to increase profits. Only time will tell if that strategy works for them or blows up in their face. The game's fate will be decided by our wallets.PC/NA/DCBreton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)12 -
Xendyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am (was) a very dedicated crafter. Have been from the beginning and I came here partly because of the crafting in this game.
I plowed my way through all the research, even Nirnhoned before it became popular because it was broken. Farmed out the Dwemer and the Psiijic Ambrosia, had all 387 recipes (the count before IC) and I was very excited when Glass was finally coming.
The grind is just ridiculous. Heck you can't even call it a grind with a double RNG factor in there. It's all just pure luck.
Obvious marketing ploy is obvious. I guess they really do think we're pretty stupid and wouldn't see through this immediately or they just don't care. Sure it's "available in the game" and getting it in the store is just a "convenience" but I feel like I was set up and literally pushed toward the store.
Damn suits.
I'll get it when I get it I suppose, but they sure shot my dedication in the foot. For sure I won't be paying a ridiculous amount for it in the store. Mostly because I hate this kind of forced marketing garbage.
Another slip down the slope for ZOS.
Another disappointed and disillusioned long-time Beta player.
Edited by Xendyn on September 28, 2015 5:42PMLag is ruinin' my 'mershun!
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance - Socrates
Member of the Old Guard, keepers of the game's history
PC/NA12 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thank you, spot on analysis, Elloa.
I think that ZOS wants to sell the content two times:
1. Sell the IC
2. Sell the Glass motif extra
I paid for the IC, but being an average player with about 2 hours playing time a day,
I do not see a light at the end of the tunnel to get the full motif set.
I love crafting, but I hate grinding, and the Glass motif set is a pure grinder's set. Terrible.Edited by BalticBlues on September 28, 2015 5:51PM4 -
Maotti✭✭✭✭✭
✭I knew i shouldn't have posted that here. Ah well, but then again, the glass motif was the first and last book i'll buy from there anyway.
I'm not gonna buy the Xivkyn one when it comes out on there.now i feel bad... bought it yesterday with the thought : "what the heck, i'm not gonna unsub anyway, so i will have access to future dlc's anyway, so might as well spend my crowns on the motif" I love eso, but the arguments that you OP gave, made me think... If I would have read this sooner i would have reconsidered my purchase..
As would i, i'll admit i got the "must have it now" feeling when i saw it.Edited by Maotti on September 28, 2015 5:54PMPC EU3 -
nimander99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's this simple, Zenimax has made nothing off the dwemer motif in the CS because they did't release until long after everyone had it, so they decided to run a test, release it virtually immediately and see what the revenue stream is. And guessing from the amount of people with glass now running around I'd say EVERYONE bought it (myself included).
To sum up, expect all motif's to hit the CS shortly after the grind is introduced.
That said, I do actually agree with you Elloa... but this is b2p, everything is now a massive grind whereas prior to b2p transition everything was obtainable via normal play.Edited by nimander99 on September 28, 2015 5:58PMI AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
"Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
"moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
"MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
"MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
"MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
"MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
"MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
"MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
"MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
"MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???
Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP4503 -
Elloa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Maotti_Nor Do not feel guilty for what you have done. A lot of players are actually buying this motif and you are not alone. Everything had been made so you would want to buy it.
I had the crown for it aswell. But I refrained myself to get it because I so disagree with the principle! I'm a ethic person, or so I try to be, and I can not support this.
However, from a totally selfish point of view, I understand the players that buy it.
If you have not buy the motif yet, and disagree with the Grind, the price, or the fact its in the Crown Shop, vote with your Wallet.12 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saltypretzels wrote: »Motif was released WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY way way way too soon.
It should have been released with Orsinium, like Elloa suggests.
I rather think the opposite : they should have made it available in the crown store at the exact same time as in the game, just like they did with the XP scrolls / psijic ambrosia.
This way it's not "something ingame loose its meaning because it is in the crown store", but "something new is in the crown store, but, as promised, you have the option to work for it ingame as well". And everybody would be happy.
3 -
Troneon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭- Step one, cause grind, RNG and frustration...
- Step two, wait a small amount of time to pass....
- Step Three, give way to skip grind, RNG and frustration by throwing real money at it...
They are not stupid, they know what they are doing. It will only get worse.
I am sure the LFG tool, bugged skills, long loading screens, exploits, fps issues will be fixed some time in 2020....all will be ok.
Just keep buying those crowns!!! Got to keep the lights on!!!
I remember when for $30-$50 you would get a complete game in the 90's, no tricks, no mini costs, no DLC held back to milk your wallet later on, not one item from the game being sold for $40+.....a full fun game that was not dumb down or over washed with microtransactions or inflated grind, rng crap to make you pay....
I miss those days.
Freemium destroyed the gaming industry mostly for me....it sucks. I seem to be using this video alot lately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2luhwy3KAE0
Edited by Troneon on September 28, 2015 7:38PMPC EU ADMaster Crafter - Anything you need!!High Elf Magicka Templar Healer/DPS/TankTrials / Dungeons / PVP / Everything16 -
Kuroinu✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Saltypretzels wrote: »Motif was released WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY way way way too soon.
It should have been released with Orsinium, like Elloa suggests.
I rather think the opposite : they should have made it available in the crown store at the exact same time as in the game, just like they did with the XP scrolls / psijic ambrosia.
This way it's not "something ingame loose its meaning because it is in the crown store", but "something new is in the crown store, but, as promised, you have the option to work for it ingame as well". And everybody would be happy.
Even though what you say is true and that we probably wouldn't see much of an outcry if they done it that way. The real problem I see is that they do not offer enough ways to obtain these motifs in game. It's so scarce to the point where players are so daunted by the task that many are most likely going to purchase it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind that it's rare in game, but I'd love to have more than one way to go about obtaining such items. In-game you can either do the daily quests each day or buy fragments from players, this is incredibly restricted and very boring even after just a week or so of doing it. The key element "fun" is missing in this current system.6 -
DaniAngione✭✭✭✭✭Great analysis.
I suppose everyone saw it coming, even though they've tried to pretend they're nice by not releasing at first with IC. I mean, as if anyone had the time to farm the full motif in less than a month lol.
I made a post about the fragmentation of the motif back when IC was released, already wondering about how soon it would go to the Crown Store:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/212390/10-10-fragments-of-a-post
(Look for "Fragment 7")
I just didn't think it would be so SOON. I mean... they should've waited AT LEAST for the release of the next DLC.
Shame on you, ZOS!
Shame on you!6