XP gain for VR 14 characters in Update 6

GaldorP

I must say I'm a bit worried about how VR 14 characters that have already completed most achievements in the game are supposed to gain XP for the new Champion System.
Here are some XP values for VR 14 characters that I've posted before, on the PTS forum:

m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »

All Champion Point Exp values for a VR 14 character with
Enlightenment:

Spellscar group type 1			4620	(4x1155)
Spellscar group type 2			4032	(4x1008)
Spellscar group type 3			2888	(4x722)

An average of killing 104 monster groups at Spellscar is
required to gain 1 Champion Point.


Cyrodiil monster (VR5; 17'041 Health)	540	(4x135)
Cyrodiil boss type 1 (VR5)		1080	(4x270)
Cyrodiil boss type 2 (Barasatii; VR5)	756	(4x189)
Cyrodiil NPC guard (VR5)		1080	(4x270)

Cyrodiil PvE quest			19960	(4x4990)
Cyrodiil dungeon quest (Barasatii)	3508	(4x877)*
Cyrodiil Fighters Guild bounty quest	19960	(4x4990)

* The only quest from Vlastarus with reduced Exp reward.

Completing about 15 PvE quests from quest hubs in Cyrodiil
should grant enough Exp for 1 Champion Point and can be
done in about 1 hour with a fast horse.


Opening a Treasure Chest		3660	(4x915)
Completing a Crafting Writ		1996	(4x499)


Exp from killing regular enemies/monsters with a VR 14
character:

Monster-Monster-			Champion Exp
Rank	Health	Zone			w. Enlightenment

VR 13	21'614	(Upper Craglorn)	576 (4x144)
VR 11	20'139	(Lower Craglorn)	576 (4x144)

Exp from normal monsters in Craglorn has been greatly
reduced compared to how much it currently is on the Live
Servers (from 1656 [4x414] to 576 [4x144], so about 65%
reduction).

VR 10	17'557	(VR 10 main zones)	1240 (4x310)
VR 9	17'041	(VR 9 main zones)	496 (4x124)
VR 8	16'525	(VR 8 main zones)	"
VR 7	16'008	(VR 7 main zones)	"
VR 6	15'492	(VR 6 main zones)	"
VR 5	14'975	(VR 5 main zones)	"
VR 4	14'459	(VR 4 main zones)	"
VR 3	13'943	(VR 3 main zones)	"
VR 2	13'426	(VR 2 main zones)	"
VR 1	12'910	(VR 1 main zones)	496 (4x124)

VR 5	17'041	(Cyrodiil main map)	540 (4x135)
VR 5	17'041	(Cyrodiil dungeon)	376 (4x94)

VR 10	17'557	(VR 10 Public Dungeon)	244 (4x61)
VR 9	17'041	(VR 9 Public Dungeon)	96 (4x24)
VR 8	16'525	(VR 8 Public Dungeon)	"
VR 7	16'008	(VR 7 Public Dungeon)	"
VR 6	15'492	(VR 6 Public Dungeon)	"
VR 5	14'975	(VR 5 Public Dungeon)	"
VR 4	14'459	(VR 4 Public Dungeon)	"
VR 3	13'943	(VR 3 Public Dungeon)	"
VR 2	13'426	(VR 2 Public Dungeon)	"
VR 1	12'910	(VR 1 Public Dungeon)	96 (4x24)

VR 10	17'557	(VR 10 Solo Delve)	864 (4x216)
VR 9	17'041	(VR 9 Solo Delve)	344 (4x86)
VR 8	16'525	(VR 8 Solo Delve)	"
VR 7	16'008	(VR 7 Solo Delve)	"
VR 6	15'492	(VR 6 Solo Delve)	"
VR 5	14'975	(VR 5 Solo Delve)	"
VR 4	14'459	(VR 4 Solo Delve)	"
VR 3	13'943	(VR 3 Solo Delve)	"
VR 2	13'426	(VR 2 Solo Delve)	"
VR 1	12'910	(VR 1 Solo Delve)	344 (4x86)

Killing 323 monsters in an outdoor VR 10 zone will also
reward the amount of Exp required to gain 1 Champion Point.
That's one monster/enemy every 11 seconds to gain 1 Champion
Point in 1 hour (with Enlightenment).

In a quick testing session on the PTS yesterday, I checked a few of these values again and those were still the same so I'll assume that all the values listed here are still correct.

As you can see there appears to be some kind of XP penalty for VR 14 characters that kill monsters that are too far below their own level. The full penalty is applied for all monsters of VR 9 or lower. Only a partial penalty is applied for VR 10 monsters. The XP rewards for all regular monsters in Craglorn have been globally reduced by ~65% when compared to Update 5 (the current build on the live servers) from 414 XP per monster to 144 XP per monster. The only zone where VR 14 characters are able to get good XP per monster from grinding now are the VR 10 zones (one per alliance) where each kill of a standard monster rewards 310 XP (more than twice what you get per monster in Craglorn).

Then I started playing with a character who had just finished the main story questline and reached VR 1. Like many I thought Cadwells Silver and Gold quests might be a good way to earn XP, in combination with completing VR Dark Anchors and World Bosses for the first time to get the achievement XP. Unfortunately, there is no bonus XP for the Champion System at all for completing VR Dark Anchors and VR World Bosses and the XP rewards for quests are mediocre at best when compared to grinding.

And this is what surprised me: A VR 1 character will get 451 XP for killing a regular VR 1 monster. That's ~46% more XP per monster than a VR 14 character can get in the very best location. So if you have a VR 1-10 character now that has a good killspeed and if you can find a good grindspot, that character can probably gain XP for Champion Points faster than any VR 14 character.

Also, I expect the good grinding spots in VR 10 zones to be really crowded as they are the only places where VR 14 characters can get XP for Champion Points at a decent rate (about twice as fast as doing Cyrodiil quests).

Did I miss something? Are there great XP rewards for completing trials or group veteran dungeons? What do you think will happen and where will the power grinders go?

zeuseason

So....you are complaining that a high level character gets less XP for killing low level mobs? And you think this should be opposite?

AlnilamE

I'm going to just help friends work through the Craglorn quests. There are enough mobs in each of those dungeons to give out a decent amount of XP, and I will have fun doing that.

Though I still have a number of Silver/Gold quests to do on my V14, which I will get to eventually.

Tonnopesce

m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »

I must say I'm a bit worried about how VR 14 characters that have already completed most achievements in the game are supposed to gain XP for the new Champion System.

Did I miss something? Are there great XP rewards for completing trials or group veteran dungeons? What do you think will happen and where will the power grinders go?

Into another game...........

Btw i remember when doing the spellscar grind was giving rougly 4500 xp without Enlightenment so if now they reward 4500 xp with, all the xp in the game is been nerfed.

I'm i wrong......?

And on a side note how much time will be needed to have a full x4 bonus?

Govalon

not happy to hear this. Why should VR 1 get more xp from killing monsters than VR 14? It does not sound right to me. And why the hell vr10 monsters give more than vr14? There is no logic in that

squidgod2000b14_ESO

zeuseason wrote: »

So....you are complaining that a high level character gets less XP for killing low level mobs? And you think this should be opposite?

He's complaining that there are far fewer options for a VR14 to gain XP vs a lower VR player, and that with so few options and so many VR14s, there will be major issues/frustrations.

squidgod2000b14_ESO

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Btw i remember when doing the spellscar grind was giving rougly 4500 xp without Enlightenment so if now they reward 4500 xp with, all the xp in the game is been nerfed.

My understanding is that only the trash mobs in Craglorn have had their XP nerfed, much like trash in public dungeons did and for much the same reason--groups of 4-6 mobs relatively close together were too "easy" or fast to grind, in the opinion of Zenimax.

I think they're trying to push people into Cyrodil for repeatables.

zeuseason

squidgod2000b14_ESO wrote: »

zeuseason wrote: »

So....you are complaining that a high level character gets less XP for killing low level mobs? And you think this should be opposite?

He's complaining that there are far fewer options for a VR14 to gain XP vs a lower VR player, and that with so few options and so many VR14s, there will be major issues/frustrations.

Considering the VR system will be gone at some point, I don't see *anything* wrong with a VR14 player having to play equal level content for equal level XP. It's almost like saying level 1 mobs should give the same amount of XP and we'll see VR characters mass clearing starter zones.

Kragorn

Govalon wrote: »

not happy to hear this. Why should VR 1 get more xp from killing monsters than VR 14? It does not sound right to me. And why the hell vr10 monsters give more than vr14? There is no logic in that

One word: powerlevelling .. or to be precise, to prevent it.

Every MMO I play scales XP based on player-level vs. mob-level, the easier the mob the less XP you get .. and in some games like ESO the higher the mob above a limit you get little to no XP (ESO and LOTRO are like that for example).

squidgod2000b14_ESO

zeuseason wrote: »

I don't see *anything* wrong with a VR14 player having to play equal level content for equal level XP.

The problem is the lack of equal- or near-equal-level content and the XP nerfs that have been dumped on what equal level content there is.

Govalon

zeuseason wrote: »

squidgod2000b14_ESO wrote: »

zeuseason wrote: »

So....you are complaining that a high level character gets less XP for killing low level mobs? And you think this should be opposite?

He's complaining that there are far fewer options for a VR14 to gain XP vs a lower VR player, and that with so few options and so many VR14s, there will be major issues/frustrations.

Considering the VR system will be gone at some point, I don't see *anything* wrong with a VR14 player having to play equal level content for equal level XP. It's almost like saying level 1 mobs should give the same amount of XP and we'll see VR characters mass clearing starter zones.

but he is saying that when VR1 player kills VR1 mobs he gets WAY more than VR14 who is killing VR14 mobs. He is also saying that VR14 will get lot more killing VR10 mobs than VR14 mobs. Sounds like really broken system to me.

So if you are vr14 already, you should go to VR10 zone to grind because each monster gives more xp than VR14 monsters in Craglorn. Think about that!

Merlin13KAGL

It's been this way since 1.5. You get diminishing returns on enemies that are lower level than you are. A VR enemy is not longer just a VR enemy. Level counts.

It should be this way. Count on Craglord (full XP's, since lowest critter is VR11) or scaled instances.

You get max XP's when you fight things at or above your level. You don't somehow get an XP bonus by being lower than the creature (though some might argue you should.)

technohic

Yeah; I'm out of objective quests the VR zones. All I have are some of the one offs that were not worth it then and will be worth less now since I have outleveled all zones.

Always Cyrodiil quests I suppose.

Xendyn

No, he's saying Craglorn mobs have been nerfed even more to only give 144 xp per monster, while a V10 mob will give 310 xp per monster.

Let the invasion of Bangkorai begin!

(also, this is why I have 2 VR1's waiting to level as my 14's will be pretty useless to get CP on)

Merlin13KAGL

Xendyn wrote: »

No, he's saying Craglorn mobs have been nerfed even more to only give 144 xp per monster, while a V10 mob will give 310 xp per monster.

Let the invasion of Bangkorai begin!

(also, this is why I have 2 VR1's waiting to level as my 14's will be pretty useless to get CP on)

As of yesterday, Crag gave XP's between 200-500 for VR11's (killed by VR14).

They haven't given the 600-900 for a couple patches now.

Govalon

People WHY DONT YOU READ. Stop spewing your own nonsense and actually READ.

He is saying that if you are VR14 you get MORE XP. MORE XP FROM VR10 MONSTERS THAN FROM VR14 MONSTERS. PEOPLE I AM GOING TO EXPLODE BECAUSE NONE OF YOU CAN READ.

Let me say ity again. V14 will gain more xp killing vr10 monsters than killing vr14 monster. I don't know how I could be more clear on this. VR 10 monsters giving more xp than vr14. VR10 is SMALLER than vr14, not BIGGER.

He is also saying that vr1 player gets more xp killing vr1 monsters than vr14 player killing vr14 monsters.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

Valmond

This is going to suck for levelling skills.
I've been thinking of trying for stamina build sorcerer, but having to grind weapon and armor skills almost from scratch, with reduced xp, is not tempting.

Xendyn

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

No, he's saying Craglorn mobs have been nerfed even more to only give 144 xp per monster, while a V10 mob will give 310 xp per monster.

Let the invasion of Bangkorai begin!

(also, this is why I have 2 VR1's waiting to level as my 14's will be pretty useless to get CP on)

As of yesterday, Crag gave XP's between 200-500 for VR11's (killed by VR14).

They haven't given the 600-900 for a couple patches now.

Is that on PTS or Live? Cause he's talking about PTS numbers.

seanvwolf

So you are complaining that one particular spot now gets less than the rest of the game? I see a solution here. Don't grind spellscar, go somewhere else.

technohic

Govalon wrote: »

People WHY DONT YOU READ. Stop spewing your own nonsense and actually READ.

He is saying that if you are VR14 you get MORE XP. READ THIS YOU FOOLS. MORE XP FROM VR10 MONSTERS THAN FROM VR14 MONSTERS. PEOPLE I AM GOING TO EXPLODE BECAUSE NONE OF YOU CAN READ.

Let me say ity again. V14 will gain more xp killing vr10 monsters than killing vr14 monster. I don't know how I could be more clear on this. VR 10 monsters giving more xp than vr14. VR10 is SMALLER than vr14, not BIGGER.

He is also saying that vr1 player gets more xp killing vr1 monsters than vr14 player killing vr14 monsters.

I'm sensing a bit of frustration here I think....


LOL I get that; its just not all that is wrong with it. Just think; in the last ESO live, they said we have plenty of ways to get XP and included killing of monsters. Meanwhile; they have nerfed the *** out of the XP of killing monsters.

SonofThunder

Why don't the VR14 players just go to all those VR14 zones and do the quests there?

(sarcasm)

GaldorP

I'm not complaining This wasn't meant as an "I accuse" thread. It's supposed to be an open discussion about XP gain for the Champion Point system in Update 6. I've found very little concrete data posted about the subject so I've decided to make this thread

I think 310 XP per monster for VR 14 characters is still pretty good (takes about 30 minutes for 1 Champion Point with Enlightenment, about 2 hours without). And I guess it's fair that VR 14 characters that are stronger than VR 10 characters get a penalty on XP because they can kill faster.
I do think it's a bit silly though that VR 1 characters get ~46% more per monster (and the monsters they kill have lower Health).

My main concern is that some spots in VR 10 Bangkorai/the Rift/Reaper's March might become very crowded.
And I'm also interested in how people who claimed they would gain XP for Champion Points at much higher rates intend to do that

To clarify one thing: The monsters I've tested in Craglorn are those in the main zone: they are VR 11 (Lower Craglorn) and VR 13 (Upper Craglorn). These monsters have had their XP rewards reduced by about 65% with Update 6:

They give 414 XP right now on the live server (standard monsters like most humanoids, scorpions, crocodiles, welwas; stronger monsters will give more), they will give 144 XP in Update 6. I have only tested monsters in the main zone of Craglorn, I don't have any values for monsters inside Craglorn delves or trials.

Also, something that many people seem to ignore: each zone has one standard XP value for all regular monsters. There's always a few monsters that will give much less XP (like some wolves or skeevers) and many strong monster types that will give more than the standard amount. I find that the standard XP reward of a zone works best to compare XP values of main zones.

GaldorP

Sorry, accidental double-post ><

Xendyn

m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm not complaining

I think 310 XP per monster for VR 14 characters is still pretty good (takes about 30 minutes for 1 CP with Enlightenment, about 2 hours without). And I guess it's fair that VR 14 characters that are stronger than VR 10 characters get a penalty on XP because they can kill faster.
I do think it's a bit silly though that VR 1 characters get ~46% more per monster (and the monsters they kill have lower Health).

I am mainly worried about some spots in VR 10 Bangkorai/the Rift/Reaper's March becoming very crowded.
And I'm also interested in how people who claimed they would gain XP for Champion Points at much better rates intend to do that

To clarify one thing: The monsters I tested in Craglorn are those in the main zone: they are VR 11 (Lower Craglorn) and VR 13 (Upper Craglorn). These monsters have had their XP rewards reduced by about 65% with Update 6.

Highlighting this part and ty for clarifying it's ALL mobs in Crag.

Audigy

squidgod2000b14_ESO wrote: »

zeuseason wrote: »

So....you are complaining that a high level character gets less XP for killing low level mobs? And you think this should be opposite?

He's complaining that there are far fewer options for a VR14 to gain XP vs a lower VR player, and that with so few options and so many VR14s, there will be major issues/frustrations.

Yet he has 70 CP already, that a new VR wont have. You can not have it all guys, your advantage are the already existing 70 CP which require many months of playtime to achieve.

If ZO would you now also give tons of XP for grinding mobs, then you would create an even bigger gap than it already exists. I am more than happy if ZO eliminates any form of grinding, it kills MMOs as we saw with Craglorn at release. The whole VR system became a joke, as players stood at their exploit spots, farming for 20 hours hitting VR 12 and later 14.

technohic

Audigy wrote: »

squidgod2000b14_ESO wrote: »

zeuseason wrote: »

So....you are complaining that a high level character gets less XP for killing low level mobs? And you think this should be opposite?

He's complaining that there are far fewer options for a VR14 to gain XP vs a lower VR player, and that with so few options and so many VR14s, there will be major issues/frustrations.

Yet he has 70 CP already, that a new VR wont have. You can not have it all guys, your advantage are the already existing 70 CP which require many months of playtime to achieve.

If ZO would you now also give tons of XP for grinding mobs, then you would create an even bigger gap than it already exists. I am more than happy if ZO eliminates any form of grinding, it kills MMOs as we saw with Craglorn at release. The whole VR system became a joke, as players stood at their exploit spots, farming for 20 hours hitting VR 12 and later 14.

Missing one part of the equation. Some VR14s also have at least 1 VR1 alt. it is not going to provide any sort of diminishing return toward gain toward them, they can just use that alt for grinding CPs. it does, however; hurt a VR14 with a single main who is just out to enjoy the game but is not going to earn nearly the progress the grinders will. It will be the same as it has always been with their lack of focus on end game and just more grinding being the optimal play style.

Mathius_Mordred

Yeah, something is wrong here.

o_0

So the real winners here are people who have 1 VR14 and a bunch of VR1's ready to get easy CP.

GaldorP

o_0 wrote: »

So the real winners here are people who have 1 VR14 and a bunch of VR1's ready to get easy CP.

It seems to me like VR 1-1x characters killing monsters of their own rank should be able to gain XP faster (at least about 50% faster*) than VR 14 characters killing VR 10 monsters if they can achieve the same number of kills per minute (average time it takes to kill one monster while grinding in a good spot).

* I've just tested the VR 1 XP again on PTS and I'm getting 467 XP per VR 1 monster now with a VR 1 character, not 451 as I've said before >< The same amount (467 XP) for killing VR 2-5 monsters with a VR 1 character.

What I'm worried about, mostly, is that VR 10 zones will be very crowded. But who knows maybe I'm wrong and maybe there's much better ways to earn XP for the Champion System that I haven't found

infraction2008b16_ESO

How much XP do the repeatable craglorn quests give? Will they be worthwhile now with the enlightenment system or not?

GaldorP

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

How much XP do the repeatable craglorn quests give? Will they be worthwhile now with the enlightenment system or not?

I would like to know that too Also group dungeons/craglorn delves and trials XP if anyone has tested these