2H or DW for NB?

Azalin76

Am running a brenton nightblade and am currently running a dual wield build but am seeing a lot of 2H talk lately because of rally. Any thoughts?

Quepo

I asked the same question. Going to keep an eye on this to see what people say. I feel like I would prefer DW with a bow being my 2nd, but I don't want to end up being gimp.

Azalin76

They both have their up sides and down sides. The 2H is nice for crit rush but NB has ambush to give us a 20% dmg boost on the next attack. DW has a better aoe but 2H gives a nice dmg shield for survival. They both have a channel type ability, 2H has wrecking blow that feels like it takes forever to swing, DW has rapid strikes that is a long channel and they both leave you wide open to a heavy attack if you're not careful. 2h has rally for extra dmg and a nice heal, where DW can give you 2 5 piece armor bonuses.

Strider_Roshin

2H without a doubt. Nightblades have great DPS and sustain but have garbage damage mitigation and healing; which is why I would only recommend 2H for stamina Nightblades; it has what the Nightblade lacks. You get your damage mitigation from brawler (a morph of cleave) and you get your healing from rally(a morph of momentum). They both produce excellent DPS, however dual wielding is just like the Nightblade class; great DPS, but low utility. This is why I say 2H every time for stamina Nightblades.

Corefyizfate

speaking from what ive read quiet a bit about I would say that you will be fine. I was using dual wield on a character when very first started and thought it was bad so i switched to 2h because i saw that it had aoe, but in the end it was brought to my attention that dual wield gets aoe as well its just a little bit after along you receive the skill.

Azalin76

What do you recommend for a 2H build? I like using the ambush and suprise attack combo, I think it works well for leveling but I can't see it working well for end game.

Lynx7386

Either works, but I love my 2h nightblade. I dont tend to play him like your typical rogue, he's more of an in your face fighter. The nightblade passives really benefit any melee build character.

Here's the main differences:

Dual Wield Builds:
+ Have amazing AoE (multi-target) DPS
+ Get the benefit of an additional item slot for set bonuses
+ Can have much higher critical chance due to dual daggers providing +10% crit
+ Have a fairly effective, though costly, ranged attack with flying blade
+ Can deal with AoE damage from enemies better due to cloak of blades
- Single target damage is low, though it's more than enough to get you by
- Burst damage, especially single target burst damage, is low
- Dual wield lacks a gap-closer to keep in range with the enemy
- Dual wield abilities lack control, they cant stun or knock down an enemy

Two Handed Builds:
+ Amazing single target damage and efficiency with wrecking blow / executioner
+ Very durable in AoE situations due to brawler providing a damage shield
+ Moderately high self healing ability with rally
+ Can boost weapon damage by 20% without relying on class skills via momentum
+ Good control over enemies with the knockdown provided by uppercut
- Poor AoE damage
- Slow attacks leave you open for countering by the enemy
- No critical chance bonus from passives
- No ranged attacks, minus the gap closer


It all really comes down to what you want to do and your playstyle/aesthetic preferences. I just never could stand dual wield, it seems like the only way to make it worthwhile is to use dinky little daggers, and that doesnt fit my burly khajiit warrior =P

Azalin76

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Either works, but I love my 2h nightblade. I dont tend to play him like your typical rogue, he's more of an in your face fighter. The nightblade passives really benefit any melee build character.

Here's the main differences:

Dual Wield Builds:
+ Have amazing AoE (multi-target) DPS
+ Get the benefit of an additional item slot for set bonuses
+ Can have much higher critical chance due to dual daggers providing +10% crit
+ Have a fairly effective, though costly, ranged attack with flying blade
+ Can deal with AoE damage from enemies better due to cloak of blades
- Single target damage is low, though it's more than enough to get you by
- Burst damage, especially single target burst damage, is low
- Dual wield lacks a gap-closer to keep in range with the enemy
- Dual wield abilities lack control, they cant stun or knock down an enemy

Two Handed Builds:
+ Amazing single target damage and efficiency with wrecking blow / executioner
+ Very durable in AoE situations due to brawler providing a damage shield
+ Moderately high self healing ability with rally
+ Can boost weapon damage by 20% without relying on class skills via momentum
+ Good control over enemies with the knockdown provided by uppercut
- Poor AoE damage
- Slow attacks leave you open for countering by the enemy
- No critical chance bonus from passives
- No ranged attacks, minus the gap closer


It all really comes down to what you want to do and your playstyle/aesthetic preferences. I just never could stand dual wield, it seems like the only way to make it worthwhile is to use dinky little daggers, and that doesnt fit my burly khajiit warrior =P

I agree with what you are saying 100% you nailed the two right on the head. I have been wondering which is more dps between executioner and assassin's blade. Also between critical rush and ambush. I have heard rally is a great heal tho the 20% bonus damage and heal can also come from the class ability drain power morph. It seems like almost all of the 2H abilities are built in to the class abilities.

Lynx7386

I prefer ambush over critical rush most of the time.
The benefit of executioner is that it increases the damage for all 2h abilities on low health enemies, effectively turning wrecking blow into an execute on bosses.
Rally tends to be better than sap/extraction because it can be used in stealth before combat starts to boost damage for your opening attack.

Aeeeek

Critical Rush needs a valid path. Ambush lets you shortcut by teleporting directly to a victim, including above/below.

Azalin76

I like ambush as well because it gives the 20% dmg bonus on the next attack and stuns.

Does wrecking blow do more dmg than assassin's blade as a execute?

Sacadon

I run both

Bloodgharm

Azalin76 wrote: »

I agree with what you are saying 100% you nailed the two right on the head. I have been wondering which is more dps between executioner and assassin's blade. Also between critical rush and ambush. I have heard rally is a great heal tho the 20% bonus damage and heal can also come from the class ability drain power morph. It seems like almost all of the 2H abilities are built in to the class abilities.

I agree. I primarily use class skills as my main damage dealers. Right now I'm leveling up both dw and bow, but keep a 2h skill on one of my bars just to level it. I plan on running 2h later on just for rally and brawler and I'll probably just use them on my second/buff bar.

Lynx7386

Azalin76 wrote: »

I like ambush as well because it gives the 20% dmg bonus on the next attack and stuns.

Does wrecking blow do more dmg than assassin's blade as a execute?

Critical rush is useful when doing group dungeons because it will consistently keep up the assassination buff for your team (every time you get a critical hit, everyone in your group gets a bonus to critical rating. Rush always crits, so you can use it on a timer to keep the buff up). Ambush is certainly more useful while soloing or pvping though.

I cant recall right now if wrecking blow does more damage than killer's blade (the stamina version of the ability), but i'm pretty sure it costs less. Executioner does similar damage to killer's blade, though it doesnt have the heal on kill.
During boss burn phases, having executioner on your bar increases your wrecking blow damage, however. Wrecking blow is much cheaper to spam than an execute, so it makes for a good alternative attack while burning the last bit of a boss' health down.

RavenSworn

Killer's blade cost less than Wrecking blow I believe. But yes having executioner allows wb to deal more damage at execute oevel.

Stannum

2h/dw NB is a good build

Grapdjan

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

2h/dw NB is a good build

This is what I was going to ask actually. I'm level 27 and have played with a few things and ended up with bow/2h which seems to let me do a few bunches of enemies, reasonably qickly, without too much down time for grinding, and pretty decent quick single target dps for questing, plus some defense, and ranged as well.

But if I wanted to level more down the 'skip quest, grind' route (seeing as i have already done the quests multiple times) would 2h/DW give me survival plus fast AoE dps please?

Thanks, sorry for hijack

Savos_Saren

Well, from an end-game perspective, here's my set up (PVE) I have a v14 Bosmer, NB, werewolf:

2H: (Master's Greatsword- precise)
-Forward Momentum
-Brawler (DoT & procs the Master's Enchants)
-Wrecking Blow
-Executioner
-Ambush
Ultimate: Flawless Dawnbreaker (DoT)

Bow: (Master's Bow- sharpened)
-Mark Target
-Evil Hunter
-Scorched Earth (DoT)
-Venom Arrow (DoT & procs the Master's Enchants)
-Crippling Grasp (DoT)
Ultimate: Ice Comet (DoT)

I run these sets:

Head and Shoulders of Valkyn Skoria (That's why I have all the DoTs)
Rings and necklace of Shadow Walker
Remaining body medium armor of Hunding's Rage (three pieces Nirnhoned- two infused)

The only thing that I would change is to have Anti-Calvary Caltrops instead of Scorched Earth. I hope to get Infused Master's Greatsword and Infused Master's Bow... and Divines Valkyn Pauldrons and Infused Valkyn's Helm.

I've had quite a few people ask me to join them in PvP- but I haven't found the right set up for it yet.. but I'd love to test some theorycrafting.

Hit me up for any questions in-game. I'm Mephis Stopholis @jaburns

Stannum

Grapdjan wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

2h/dw NB is a good build

This is what I was going to ask actually. I'm level 27 and have played with a few things and ended up with bow/2h which seems to let me do a few bunches of enemies, reasonably qickly, without too much down time for grinding, and pretty decent quick single target dps for questing, plus some defense, and ranged as well.

But if I wanted to level more down the 'skip quest, grind' route (seeing as i have already done the quests multiple times) would 2h/DW give me survival plus fast AoE dps please?

Thanks, sorry for hijack

Look, bow gives you ranged only, flying blade give you good ranged too its not so cheap as bow is but if you have good stamina managment it's not a problem. So you have all benefits of 2H and DW and you have ranged, so you don't need bow.
Another matter - DW is phisical dmg as 2H is (some of bow skill are poison) so you can focus CP on one constellation buff.
So it seem to me that DW+bow<2H+bow<2H+DW

kylerjalen

I have a Breton NB that is a stamina build.
I run a DW bar as well as a 2H bar and a bow bar.
Yes I skillpoint *** like crazy.

You can make it work for you. I did for me.

Here's my setup:
DW for questing and single target: Relentless Focus (strictly for the stam regen, I never use the spectral bow), Reaping Mark, switch to bow, snipe or I just ambush from stealth instead, then Flurry. Normally thats enough to burn one target. Then move on to the next one. If it gets too hairy and I need to get some quick health, use Swallow Soul.
Bow for questing and single target: Reaping Mark, Venom Arrow, Draining Shot for if they get too close. Crippling Grasp if it gets troublesome and Dark Cloak out to put distance. Then repeat.
For AoE: Nothing beats throwing up Siphoning Attacks and Relentless Focus and just spamming the hell out of Steel Tornado and Sap Essence with a 3:1 ratio. This works for most mobs except Craglorn. That's where...
2H for Craglorn mobs and dungeon bosses: Pop Siphoning Attacks then Rally. Spiked Bone Shield is always up in between Brawl and Executioner, rinse repeat.
To note: Flawless Dawnbreaker is my go to Ultimate for the most part. Sometimes I run Soul Tether for single target bosses or Incapacitating Strike for a quick execution.
I'm still tweaking what I do in PvP but I do know Mass Hysteria has saved my life more than once.
I run Twice Born Star for the bonus (Warrior and Tower) and Hunding's Rage for everything else.

I'm quite happy with what I have and while there is other gear I am looking at getting which may help me better survive at PvP, this setup, a Breton NB with stamina and damage as the main focus, suits me just well.

Lynx7386

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Grapdjan wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

2h/dw NB is a good build

This is what I was going to ask actually. I'm level 27 and have played with a few things and ended up with bow/2h which seems to let me do a few bunches of enemies, reasonably qickly, without too much down time for grinding, and pretty decent quick single target dps for questing, plus some defense, and ranged as well.

But if I wanted to level more down the 'skip quest, grind' route (seeing as i have already done the quests multiple times) would 2h/DW give me survival plus fast AoE dps please?

Thanks, sorry for hijack

Look, bow gives you ranged only, flying blade give you good ranged too its not so cheap as bow is but if you have good stamina managment it's not a problem. So you have all benefits of 2H and DW and you have ranged, so you don't need bow.
Another matter - DW is phisical dmg as 2H is (some of bow skill are poison) so you can focus CP on one constellation buff.
So it seem to me that DW+bow<2H+bow<2H+DW

But a bow gives you a ranged healing de buff and ranged spell interrupt. Dual wield can't match that kind of utility for pvp.

With dw and a bow, you also miss out on the 20% damage boost from momentum. Sure, you can use power extraction, but that won't boost your damage out of combat for a stealth attack, or at long range either.

Imo: 2h+bow > 2h+dw > dw+bow

Stannum

Lynx7386 wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Grapdjan wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

2h/dw NB is a good build

This is what I was going to ask actually. I'm level 27 and have played with a few things and ended up with bow/2h which seems to let me do a few bunches of enemies, reasonably qickly, without too much down time for grinding, and pretty decent quick single target dps for questing, plus some defense, and ranged as well.

But if I wanted to level more down the 'skip quest, grind' route (seeing as i have already done the quests multiple times) would 2h/DW give me survival plus fast AoE dps please?

Thanks, sorry for hijack

Look, bow gives you ranged only, flying blade give you good ranged too its not so cheap as bow is but if you have good stamina managment it's not a problem. So you have all benefits of 2H and DW and you have ranged, so you don't need bow.
Another matter - DW is phisical dmg as 2H is (some of bow skill are poison) so you can focus CP on one constellation buff.
So it seem to me that DW+bow<2H+bow<2H+DW

But a bow gives you a ranged healing de buff and ranged spell interrupt. Dual wield can't match that kind of utility for pvp.

With dw and a bow, you also miss out on the 20% damage boost from momentum. Sure, you can use power extraction, but that won't boost your damage out of combat for a stealth attack, or at long range either.

Imo: 2h+bow > 2h+dw > dw+bow

There are very few spell you can interrupt in PvP as most of players uses instant and healing debuf you can put with desease glyph. So... I've tried all combination and like 2H\DW most. Bow builds are better only for gankers or glasscannons, who will not fight long and if will not manage to kill with first strikes should evade.

Lynx7386

Put yourself on a keep wall defending it, or on the ground assaulting a keep. That's what pvp focuses on here. Someone with a bow will have more range and be able to attack indefinitely. Someone with dual wield can only spam flying blade will be far less effective.

Even out in open world pvp, I'd rather have the magnum shot -> critical rush combo for burst damage than flying blade.

Stannum

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Put yourself on a keep wall defending it, or on the ground assaulting a keep. That's what pvp focuses on here. ...

really you think so? wall fights is nothing, the real assault begins when walls are down and siege weapons outranges bows anyway

Duukar

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Either works, but I love my 2h nightblade. I dont tend to play him like your typical rogue, he's more of an in your face fighter. The nightblade passives really benefit any melee build character.

Here's the main differences:

Dual Wield Builds:
+ Have amazing AoE (multi-target) DPS
+ Get the benefit of an additional item slot for set bonuses
+ Can have much higher critical chance due to dual daggers providing +10% crit
+ Have a fairly effective, though costly, ranged attack with flying blade
+ Can deal with AoE damage from enemies better due to cloak of blades
- Single target damage is low, though it's more than enough to get you by
- Burst damage, especially single target burst damage, is low
- Dual wield lacks a gap-closer to keep in range with the enemy
- Dual wield abilities lack control, they cant stun or knock down an enemy

Hey I think you have DW all wrong. At least in the context of NBs. DW provides great synergy with the NB class skills.

Burst dmg low? Not with the massive weapon dmg boost you get from DWing. Ambush in to Surprise Attack is some of the highest burst in the game >>>> Wrecking blow. You can weave surprise attack incredibly well and it provides an armor debuff. Yikes.. Nighty night wrecking blow burst.

Gap closer? Ambush, nuff said.

Lacks control? Well any NB worth his salt right now runs fear on their main bar. Fear >>>> any other CC in this game hands down.

Higher crit chance? Any NB worth their salt is running 2 sharp maces as far as I know. Crit sitting around 45-50% is good enough.

My biggest issue is choosing DW for my aoe bar or my single target bar. Rally is too huge to give up at the moment, but once i get Vigor that all changes. 8.5 so far... grr.

my end game group build is 2h5m, 5 ravager 5 hundings 2 engine guardian DW and S&B... This build packs a huge aoe punch and has some good surviva and utility to get you through in a pinch.. Right now im DW/S&B(depending on heals) and 2h. With the S&B i use Power Extraction and i get good aoe results with lots of surviva.

solo build will likely always be 2h and bow 7 med 5 hundings 3 ashen 3 shadow walker.

Duuk

Jaiden

2h/DW Combo build. This is the build for great dps and reliability.

Primary bar DW: Ambush, surprise attack, steel tornado, camo hunter, mass hysteria, Ult: flawless/incapacitated strike.

This is your dps bar. This is where you do single target or AoE damage. Camo hunter gives you a perma crit increase. Flawless on ulty gives across board damage, Inc strike gives more burst. Your call.

2H bar: silver shards, razor caltrops/double take, relentless focus, rally, shadow cloak. Ulty: meteor/barrier

This is your ranged buff bar. Caltrops for more AoE or double take for more defense. Same with the ultimates. Silver shards hits like a truck with stam builds and is an AoE in when firing at groups. Knocks down and stuns vamps, WW, and undead.

This is how I roll and haven't looked back. I primarily pvp but this works for pve as well.

Smuggles

My main isnt a NB, but I can definitely vouch for the power/utility that comes from the 2H/DW combo.

Oliumzen

I PVP with 2h/Bow.

My bow bar is

Poison Arrow morph that interrupts spells
Focus Aim
Pretty much rely on those two for long range damage
Cross bow morph that pulls Daedra to you (don't use too often as i can hit much farther away with Focus Aim and Light attacks)
Camo Hunter
Retreating maneuver.
Soul tether for running away if i need to.

2h Bar
Ambush The stun kills enemy resources, where crit rush does not. Also works as a gap closer.
Wrecking blow as an execute also if needed to kill enemy resources it works if you use crit rush
Vigor
Rally
Mass Hysteria
Cant think of the ult here but its the one that only cost 50 ult to use.

5 peices hundings rage and night silence for the rest.

Eventually i plan on putting Flawless dawnbreaker on 2h bar.

I have been looking into different builds and am debating DW/Bow. specifically something similar to Sypherpks.
Both Sypher and Deltia have great build tips if you feel like looking them up.

Elijah_Crow

jeremyrisleyb14_ESO wrote: »

2h/DW Combo build. This is the build for great dps and reliability.

Primary bar DW: Ambush, surprise attack, steel tornado, camo hunter, mass hysteria, Ult: flawless/incapacitated strike.

This is your dps bar. This is where you do single target or AoE damage. Camo hunter gives you a perma crit increase. Flawless on ulty gives across board damage, Inc strike gives more burst. Your call.

2H bar: silver shards, razor caltrops/double take, relentless focus, rally, shadow cloak. Ulty: meteor/barrier

This is your ranged buff bar. Caltrops for more AoE or double take for more defense. Same with the ultimates. Silver shards hits like a truck with stam builds and is an AoE in when firing at groups. Knocks down and stuns vamps, WW, and undead.

This is how I roll and haven't looked back. I primarily pvp but this works for pve as well.

This is very close to my build and I love it. Most powerful I've seen.

dday3six

I'd level and put points in both. They are both useful for different things. You can always run both, or pair either with a bow.

For PVE I run DW main. Steel Tornado is not only the best stamina AOE, it's the best AOE period. You're group might struggle with trash pulls if the Stamina DPS are not using ST. Rending Slashes and Quick Cloak are both very useful skills for PVE as well. Also it's important to remember that DW is going to provide more stat bonuses because it's another set piece.

There are 2 options for getting Major Brutality with DW on main. Using 2H on your back bar for Rally, or getting it from pots. Pots are expensive and/or time consuming. However they provide the best benefits in a strictly DPS sense. They're on your front bar so no need to weapon swap to use them. A VR10 pots last 44.2s with Alchemy Passives on a 45s CD so it can be up for all but less than a sec. A VR15 pots for 45.5s. Rally only last 33s. You'll be able to spend more time performing actions that actually deal damage when using pots. On top of that you'll get Major Savagery so you don't need to slot Evil/Camo Hunter always, as well as the inject of stamina and stamina recovery to help with sustain.

2H is beneficial when you might need more defense options. Nightblade has access to Shadow Barrier for using Shadow skills, but sometimes you need the burst heal potential of Rally, or the extra EHP of Brawler. This is mostly in solo sitautions though as a decent healer should be up to the task of keeping decent dps going without the need to stack extra defense skills.

Personally I only use 2H on main for in PVP. As I find DW to be overall more useful for PVE. However I do use 2H on back bar for Rally if I'm not using pots.

imredneckson

Azalin76 wrote: »

Am running a brenton nightblade and am currently running a dual wield build but am seeing a lot of 2H talk lately because of rally. Any thoughts?

Both