The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 22:
• [IN PROGRESS] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [IN PROGRESS] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [IN PROGRESS] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [IN PROGRESS] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Automatic renewal cancellation - Legal terms
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Sykotik_ESO✭✭✭Its saying based off the subscription you picked, so 30 days, 3 months, 180 days...whatever it is, before THAT subscription ends you need to cancel it 30 days prior. So for the free 30 days that is not a subscription and does not count, once that 30 days is up your subscription starts so if you have a 1month subscription then you have to cancel it sometime before the end of the free 30 days, if you have 3 month it needs to be canceled before the end of the last month of those 3 months, and so on.
It states clearly that it has to be prior to 30 days of your SUBSCRIPTION, not the simple free 30 days which is not a subscription but included with purchase once you make a subscription.
Edit: seriously the internet blows stuff way out of proportion when people haven't learned how to read.Edited by Sykotik_ESO on April 11, 2014 11:03PM1 -
krilleyy95✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Thanks for this, I just cancelled my subscription.. Sadly I get to pay for next month I guess... It should be illegal to even have terms like that, but of course they do it, because they know no one really reads the terms & agreement.. Such scumbags
yup it's wrong in every way, but maybe now you'll take the few minutes it takes to read it lol
Honestly, I just really hope some rich ESO player with a grudge sues them so hard as revenge.
EDIT **
Just scrolled through the Terms really fast, and I wondered about this -
"ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services." So, Zenimax is under no obligations to fix their game at all, in any ways? - Seems pretty fishy for a P2P game
You'd think so but thats standard in pay to play mmos. Its also standard to mention that your account its characters and every thing connected to it is there property and they can delete and or ban your account for no reason and not have to give you a reason lol the Elua and the tos are always really screwed up and you really have to pay attention to it
World of Warcraft doesn't have any "we are under no obligation to fix our game" agreements as far as I can see, nor with the "cashstealing" agreement.
Well I mean you have the choice to go play WoW instead. Somehow tho I doubt they wont ever fix any bugs. In fact they have already fixed quite a few.
I never said WoW was better or anything, I just checked their terms.. But let's be honest though, as much as I like ESO as a game itself, if Zenimax continues in this way, it won't even have the slightest chance of being a competitor to World of Warcraft, even if it turned good it probably wouldn't be a worthy competitor.
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jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭krilleyy95 wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Thanks for this, I just cancelled my subscription.. Sadly I get to pay for next month I guess... It should be illegal to even have terms like that, but of course they do it, because they know no one really reads the terms & agreement.. Such scumbags
yup it's wrong in every way, but maybe now you'll take the few minutes it takes to read it lol
Honestly, I just really hope some rich ESO player with a grudge sues them so hard as revenge.
EDIT **
Just scrolled through the Terms really fast, and I wondered about this -
"ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services." So, Zenimax is under no obligations to fix their game at all, in any ways? - Seems pretty fishy for a P2P game
You'd think so but thats standard in pay to play mmos. Its also standard to mention that your account its characters and every thing connected to it is there property and they can delete and or ban your account for no reason and not have to give you a reason lol the Elua and the tos are always really screwed up and you really have to pay attention to it
World of Warcraft doesn't have any "we are under no obligation to fix our game" agreements as far as I can see, nor with the "cashstealing" agreement.
Well I mean you have the choice to go play WoW instead. Somehow tho I doubt they wont ever fix any bugs. In fact they have already fixed quite a few.
I never said WoW was better or anything, I just checked their terms.. But let's be honest though, as much as I like ESO as a game itself, if Zenimax continues in this way, it won't even have the slightest chance of being a competitor to World of Warcraft, even if it turned good it probably wouldn't be a worthy competitor.
ESO is not meant to be a challenger to WoW. Its a completely different game. I know they are both MMOs but thats it. I only said this because you said WoW doesnt have this kind of thing. I believe this is much ado about nothing. They are not going to bill you for two months if you cancel within your first month of actual paid time.1 -
djodars✭✭✭Sykotik_ESO wrote: »It states clearly that it has to be prior to 30 days of your SUBSCRIPTION, not the simple free 30 days which is not a subscription but included with purchase once you make a subscription.
I don't think anyone misinterpreted that...
What we're arguing about is that basically, if you cancel on July 2nd, you'll be charged for the month of August because you cancelled 29 days before the end and not 30.
Which is pretty bad if that's really how it's gonna be...1 -
otomodachi✭✭✭krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Thanks for this, I just cancelled my subscription.. Sadly I get to pay for next month I guess... It should be illegal to even have terms like that, but of course they do it, because they know no one really reads the terms & agreement.. Such scumbags
yup it's wrong in every way, but maybe now you'll take the few minutes it takes to read it lol
Honestly, I just really hope some rich ESO player with a grudge sues them so hard as revenge.
EDIT **
Just scrolled through the Terms really fast, and I wondered about this -
"ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services." So, Zenimax is under no obligations to fix their game at all, in any ways? - Seems pretty fishy for a P2P game
You'd think so but thats standard in pay to play mmos. Its also standard to mention that your account its characters and every thing connected to it is there property and they can delete and or ban your account for no reason and not have to give you a reason lol the Elua and the tos are always really screwed up and you really have to pay attention to it
World of Warcraft doesn't have any "we are under no obligation to fix our game" agreements as far as I can see, nor with the "cashstealing" agreement.
Honestly, I don't really know any P2P games other than WoW and ESO at the moment, every other game has gone F2P.
EVE
What do you gain by criticizing a CSR complaint?2 -
Requielle✭✭✭krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Thanks for this, I just cancelled my subscription.. Sadly I get to pay for next month I guess... It should be illegal to even have terms like that, but of course they do it, because they know no one really reads the terms & agreement.. Such scumbags
yup it's wrong in every way, but maybe now you'll take the few minutes it takes to read it lol
Honestly, I just really hope some rich ESO player with a grudge sues them so hard as revenge.
EDIT **
Just scrolled through the Terms really fast, and I wondered about this -
"ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services." So, Zenimax is under no obligations to fix their game at all, in any ways? - Seems pretty fishy for a P2P game
You'd think so but thats standard in pay to play mmos. Its also standard to mention that your account its characters and every thing connected to it is there property and they can delete and or ban your account for no reason and not have to give you a reason lol the Elua and the tos are always really screwed up and you really have to pay attention to it
World of Warcraft doesn't have any "we are under no obligation to fix our game" agreements as far as I can see, nor with the "cashstealing" agreement.
Honestly, I don't really know any P2P games other than WoW and ESO at the moment, every other game has gone F2P.
EVE Online - still subscription based after 10 years.1 -
tengri✭✭✭✭✭Well, at least with Paypal payment option they can not enforce this.
Yes, they checked if the payment was possible when we subscribed - but they then canceled this transaction.
When it's time in May for next payment (this time for real) they will need to send a new payment request - however, Paypal will not hand over anything until the account holder explicitly approves this new transaction; and there is no automatic recurring payment option.0 -
otomodachi✭✭✭krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Thanks for this, I just cancelled my subscription.. Sadly I get to pay for next month I guess... It should be illegal to even have terms like that, but of course they do it, because they know no one really reads the terms & agreement.. Such scumbags
yup it's wrong in every way, but maybe now you'll take the few minutes it takes to read it lol
Honestly, I just really hope some rich ESO player with a grudge sues them so hard as revenge.
EDIT **
Just scrolled through the Terms really fast, and I wondered about this -
"ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services." So, Zenimax is under no obligations to fix their game at all, in any ways? - Seems pretty fishy for a P2P game
You'd think so but thats standard in pay to play mmos. Its also standard to mention that your account its characters and every thing connected to it is there property and they can delete and or ban your account for no reason and not have to give you a reason lol the Elua and the tos are always really screwed up and you really have to pay attention to it
World of Warcraft doesn't have any "we are under no obligation to fix our game" agreements as far as I can see, nor with the "cashstealing" agreement.
Honestly, I don't really know any P2P games other than WoW and ESO at the moment, every other game has gone F2P.
EVE Online - still subscription based after 10 years.
Player's council, too. *nudge nudge*What do you gain by criticizing a CSR complaint?0 -
Sykotik_ESO✭✭✭Sykotik_ESO wrote: »It states clearly that it has to be prior to 30 days of your SUBSCRIPTION, not the simple free 30 days which is not a subscription but included with purchase once you make a subscription.
I don't think anyone misinterpreted that...
What we're arguing about is that basically, if you cancel on July 2nd, you'll be charged for the month of August because you cancelled 29 days before the end and not 30.
Which is pretty bad if that's really how it's gonna be...
Even so its plenty of time to cancel a recurring sub, rift had basically the same terms and I simply sent them an email because I had forgotten about my recurring after I quit and they fully refunded me everything.
I guarantee Zenimax and any major company would do exactly the same thing.
This kind of stuff is why the internetand media always blows everything way out of proportion.
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Vlas✭✭✭Sykotik_ESO wrote: »Sykotik_ESO wrote: »It states clearly that it has to be prior to 30 days of your SUBSCRIPTION, not the simple free 30 days which is not a subscription but included with purchase once you make a subscription.
I don't think anyone misinterpreted that...
What we're arguing about is that basically, if you cancel on July 2nd, you'll be charged for the month of August because you cancelled 29 days before the end and not 30.
Which is pretty bad if that's really how it's gonna be...
Even so its plenty of time to cancel a recurring sub, rift had basically the same terms and I simply sent them an email because I had forgotten about my recurring after I quit and they fully refunded me everything.
I guarantee Zenimax and any major company would do exactly the same thing.
This kind of stuff is why the internetand media always blows everything way out of proportion.
You can guarantee anything you want, doesnt make it happen.0 -
Endolith✭✭✭I think people are making too much of it. These kinds of terms are often provided so that if a payment overlaps with a cancellation request, the company has recourse to the agreement. A shorter term would suffice, but often when there is a recurring renewal term, attorneys just automatically pick the length of that term as the time in which cancellation must be made. I don't expect ZOS intends to force anyone into an additional payment if they cancel less than 30 days out. If someone tries to cancel and ZOS tells them they have to make the next payment, regardless, then I'll believe it.1 -
FezzikVizzini✭✭✭I have already cancelled my sub and my account page now says:-
details
Game Time Remaining
You have 20 days of game time remaining.
Account Status
Active - Cancelled
I am in the UK and set up my sub by credit card. Unlike the game I had no problem doing this. I got an email saying that I had been billed for £0.0. Nothing reserved or anything like that.
Now that I have cancelled my account shows as above. I have even clicked on manage account to see what choices are now there and if I did want to re-sub I would have to go through the initial procedure again. There are no credit card details stored.
So, I can absolutely say that you do not get billed if you cancel your sub before the 30 days are up. You can't give 30 days notice to a recurring sub that had not actually started.
Yeah, I got a PC. I just don't feel the need to post it's specifications for an ego boost.1 -
squeeze✭Yes, but can you play now after cancelling? I cannot even login to either NA or EU at the moment.FezzikVizzini wrote: »I have already cancelled my sub and my account page now says:-
details
Game Time Remaining
You have 20 days of game time remaining.
Account Status
Active - Cancelled
I am in the UK and set up my sub by credit card. Unlike the game I had no problem doing this. I got an email saying that I had been billed for £0.0. Nothing reserved or anything like that.
Now that I have cancelled my account shows as above. I have even clicked on manage account to see what choices are now there and if I did want to re-sub I would have to go through the initial procedure again. There are no credit card details stored.
So, I can absolutely say that you do not get billed if you cancel your sub before the 30 days are up. You can't give 30 days notice to a recurring sub that had not actually started.0 -
FezzikVizzini✭✭✭Yep I can still play. Not that I want to obviously as my bank is wiped and items etc missing.Yeah, I got a PC. I just don't feel the need to post it's specifications for an ego boost.2
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Aenima_pt✭✭✭That line about no obligation to patch is just there for legal purposes. As many other things.
They already released patches and keep working on more patched, fixes and updades to improve the game.0 -
btw, if you pay with paypal, you can just block the auto-renew... (in your paypal preference)0
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Bansheedragon✭✭✭otomodachi wrote: »otomodachi wrote: »Yeah, because the 30 day trial isn't a subscription, the more I read it, the more I think it won't matter until you actually start a pay cycle.
The free 30 day isn't a subscription... but the subscription you had to pick in order to have access to that 30 day is; and it is automatic renewal as well.
There's a lot of ways to interpret this thing and that's why I want people to see this and ask questions. It shouldn't be this complicated but whoever wrote the legal terms made it complicated :P
I agree, I referred to this thread in the known-issues thread. I THINK we're being paranoid, because "30 days prior to the end of current subscription" means 30 days prior to the end of the month AFTER your trial, to my brain.
Also, "30 days prior" in business speak usually includes that 30th day, so cancelling the day you sub should still fit the bill.
Let say I subscribe monthly for the next 3 months.
Then after those 3 months I decide I dont want to play anymore.
If I unsubcribe 5 days before the next payment is due, will they charge me for the 4th month as well then, even if I dont want to play?
That dont sound very legal to me.
It sounds to me like they are forcing me to subscribe for another month just to be able to cancel.
And if I have a monthly sub, I cant cancel 30 days before my sub ends, because as soon as I pay for the next month, I will immediately start on the 30 days, leaving me with less than 30 days to my sub ends.
Edited by Bansheedragon on April 15, 2014 8:49PM0 -
Maxium✭✭✭krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »"ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services." So, Zenimax is under no obligations to fix their game at all, in any ways? - Seems pretty fishy for a P2P game
LOL! That's my favorite one.0 -
Endolith✭✭✭Bansheedragon wrote: »It sounds to me like they are forcing me to subscribe for another month just to be able to cancel.
And if I have a monthly sub, I cant cancel 30 days before my sub ends, because as soon as I pay for the next month, I will immediately start on the 30 days, leaving me with less than 30 days to my sub ends.
As I said above, it's going to play out as a technicality. Yes, if you don't unsubscribe in time they could technically charge you. It's not illegal - it's a civil agreement between you the company (setting aside issues of enforceability). But from a practical standpoint, that's not going to happen. It's just a CYA in case of mix-ups.
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jb1b84✭It's a somewhat poor way of wording it. A lingering side effect of my time in law school is being able to somewhat parse through this kind of junk.
A more clear way to say this might be "If you want to cancel a 30 day subscription you must do it before that subscription period begins".
People are getting hung up on the "at least 30 days before the expiration of the subscription". The keyword there is expiration, so 30 days before the expiration of a 30 day subscription is a long-winded way of saying "before the subscription starts".
That being said, it would still be best if someone official weighed in as I'm just a random internet guy who realized he didn't really want to be a lawyer...0 -
I remember a time where a business' primary focus was on the quality of its product and service and it was through that quality they achieved continued patronage of customers. It seems like too many businesses are way more concerned with just locking in your money as the prority. Honestly don't know where Zen falls on this, but we'll find out in time.0 -
cheeser123✭✭✭Walden_Grimtine wrote: »I remember a time where a business' primary focus was on the quality of its product and service and it was through that quality they achieved continued patronage of customers. It seems like too many businesses are way more concerned with just locking in your money as the prority. Honestly don't know where Zen falls on this, but we'll find out in time.
It's modern business -- the goal is to make money, not to contribute to the economy by producing usable goods, quality services, etc.0 -
Auric_ESO✭✭✭✭you people are jsut looking for stuff to complain about. Sheesh"The purpose of training is to tighten up the slack, toughen the body, and polish the spirit." Morihei Ueshiba1 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We should be able to cancel 10 minutes before expiration without having to worry about being charged.
If I get charged even after canceling I dispute the charges.Edited by Holycannoli on April 16, 2014 12:24AM0 -
ZOS_KaiSchoberadminWe would like to clear up some misinformation on the forums regarding cancellation of recurring subscriptions.
If you selected a recurring subscription payment method – such as a credit card – your card will not be charged until your 30 days of access included with the purchase of the game expire. If you cancel your subscription at any time before the expiration of your included 30 days, your card will not be charged.
Some forum users have noted language in the Terms of Service (TOS) requiring users to cancel 30 days prior to the end of the current subscription period in order to avoid continuing charges. However, the TOS also provide that a specific web service – such as ESO – can have different terms that will apply to that service. In the case of ESO, as clearly stated in the ESO store pages, you can cancel your subscription at any time.
So for someone who activated a 30-day recurring subscription plan on April 5:- You will have 30 days of gameplay included with purchase of the game and you will not be charged for a subscription payment until May 5, immediately upon expiration of the 30 days.
- If you cancel your subscription at any time prior to May 5, you will not be charged for a subscription payment. You will continue to have access to the game until expiration of your 30 days included gameplay.
- If you cancel your subscription after May 5, say on June 9, you will be charged for the May and June 30-day billing cycles. After that you will not be charged for a subscription payment. You will continue to have access to the game until expiration of your 30-day June billing cycle.
We look forward to seeing you in Tamriel!
Edited by ZOS_KaiSchober on April 16, 2014 8:06PM5 -
Stonesthrow✭✭✭✭EDIT: You beat me to it KaiSchober…
Checking my Paypal account, they billed me then cancelled the bill a few minutes later.
It was just to get the account ready and prove it existed. They haven't charged me anything yet. If I were to cancel before my free 30 days were up, they would not be billing me anything.Edited by Stonesthrow on April 16, 2014 7:14PM0