Concerns regarding the NEW UI being currently develloped

Elloa · August 2015

Greetings Zenimax, and everyone,

I've concerns regarding the project of changing the base interface for PC and Consoles. As everyone knows I'm a strong defender of the minimalist UI and non usage of Addons. But I'll skip that part and go directly to what concerns me.
In a french thread regarding the interface on Console ( here), ZOS_LenaicR suggest that we give our feedback to the devellopers so they know what matter for the players.

I know that for a lot of player, flying combat text and Buff/Debuff icons are very important. No matter what the Devellopers add to the base interface - I'm even not going to discuss it - its the biggest importance to make all those new options ...optionals, and give the players the possibility to enable or disable any of those features.

While a lot of players are using addons to have a UI that looks/feel more like a classical MMO a la World of Warcraft, a lot of players are using addons to remove more interface.
I personally use ZERO addons, and I intent to continue to play with a immersive interface that do not hide my game. I want to have the possibility to desactivate any of the new UI options you will give in the future, as I feel it would ruin my game pleasure if I had to endure them.

More options, the better. So everyone can customise their UI according to their own wishes and needs. And those need can change according to the moment. A competitve PVPer who want Nameplates and Flying combat text, may want to disable it once he is questing in peace.

So, please, please Zenimax, anything new added to the UI, make it optional. In the same way, please, continue to develop the visual clue and spell effect for the players that - like me - want a immersive combat without text, an experience of the game where you pay attention to the action, not the UI.

Thank you!

Azalin76 · August 2015

I agree that optional options are the best way to go. There are some classes that I have no problems with having no add ons because the visual queues are easy to see. Some classes like the dragon knight with the burning visuals are not so easy. In this game burning is burning and you can't really tell the difference between searing strike, firey breath, and just a burning dot from a fire weapon enchant. I would love to see an improvement on this rather than add ons that will clutter and slow down the ui but I would imagine there isn't much they can do.

Also being in a group makes this even more difficult, having another dragon knight in your group gives no hope of ever knowing if it's your burning effects or theirs. If they are going to give us an add on like this then I would prefer to see only my effects on my enemy.

P3ZZL3 · August 2015

Do I have the option on Optional Options?

I also have no issues with toggle on/off - it's when it's forced it annoys me and turns me off a game.

Do you have a screenshot of the new UI they are intending?

ZOS_RichLambert · August 2015

When things like SCT go in, you will have the option to toggle them off or on.

Junglejim82 · August 2015

What sorcery is this exactly? A new and improved u.i ? With combat data ? Perhaps even text chat ? This excites me I need those numbers I'm sure I'm not the only one . Would seriously improve this game

Rescorla_ESO · August 2015

Are nameplates going back in at the same time these other changes to the UI are going in?

Elsonso · August 2015

Elloa wrote: »

In the same way, please, continue to develop the visual clue and spell effect for the players that - like me - want a immersive combat without text, an experience of the game where you pay attention to the action, not the UI

I wish to throw my weight behind this sentiment, as well.

World of Warcraft drives me nuts because of all the floating text, displays, bars, counters, and instructions that have to be on the screen in order to be competitive with other players. I find that text to be distracting, but sadly necessary on World of Warcraft. I am not advocating immersion, but I do like the minimalist UI that I get when games do cater to it.

I find myself preferring the visual cues that have been placed into ESO just because it provides me with information I need without getting overly technical and detailed about it. I have one "combat" add-on, and that is a custom version of Srendarr so that I can keep track of potions and other effects placed on me without having to open my character screen all the time.

It is actually rather nice to play a game where I don't have to worry about the numbers, for once. I don't use add-ons that give me numbers, or tell me when to cast a certain spell or use a particular ability. I consider the latter to be cheating per the ToS since it provides an advantage to Play. I make all of my combat decisions based on red areas on the ground and the events and effects that I see in the world.

However, as I have adjusted to a minimalist UI, I have also learned that it requires a greater level of skill to be good at a game that has an interface like this. I can't say that I have mastered it, and my damage numbers might not be as high as the people who rely on that information to be good in the game.

So, I find myself in the oddest of positions by requesting that ZOS not "dumb down" combat with too much meta UI information, like floating text and numbers, so that it becomes too easy to play the game, and provide a way to selectively turn off that information for those of us who want a more skilled approach to the game.

I do think that an optional Srendarr-like addition to the UI would be warranted. This would provide information about effects on the character, buff and debuff, so that we can be reminded when these things expire.

Gilvoth · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

When things like SCT go in, you will have the option to toggle them off or on.

that fixes everything

thank you for answer and thank you for allow us to turn off or on

icontested · August 2015

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Do I have the option on Optional Options?

I also have no issues with toggle on/off - it's when it's forced it annoys me and turns me off a game.

Do you have a screenshot of the new UI they are intending?

I used to think more of you.. If I can't have options on my options for optional options i might just play this game even more because it is so good no matter what.

Knootewoot · August 2015

I don't care about new UI. Although I prefer the minimal UI, in PvP it just does not work.

I use FTC.

But what I am worried about is other UI mods like Combat cloud. They give to much information (like incoming projectiles, even when you haven't released a bow attack yet so flappy and dodgeroll can be done even before the skill is fired.

I tested this out with a bow hiding in sneak and in a bush. People walk by on horse or by foot. Ready snipe, but cancel attack. 80% of the players flapped wings, dodge rolled, bolt escape, got of horse blocking etc.

Will there be done something about these "cheat-on's" since it ruins PvP for any ranged caster/attacker.

Wolfenbelle · August 2015

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Do I have the option on Optional Options?

Just FYI, French is Elloa's first language, not English. There are a lot of non-native English speakers on these forums, so it helps to cut people some slack if they aren't spot on with English grammar and usage.

Elsonso · August 2015

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Do I have the option on Optional Options?

Just FYI, French is Elloa's first language, not English. There are a lot of non-native English speakers on these forums, so it helps to cut people some slack if they aren't spot on with English grammar and usage.

For the non-English speaking people, this is not how I would interpret P3ZZL3's comment.

P3ZZL3 · August 2015

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Do I have the option on Optional Options?

Just FYI, French is Elloa's first language, not English. There are a lot of non-native English speakers on these forums, so it helps to cut people some slack if they aren't spot on with English grammar and usage.

Just an FYI - There was no insult or attack on Elloa in the slightest. It was a play on the xzibit Meme, which clearly @icontested got, and you sir, did not

Mighty_oakk · August 2015

Junglejim82 wrote: »

What sorcery is this exactly? A new and improved u.i ? With combat data ? Perhaps even text chat ? This excites me I need those numbers I'm sure I'm not the only one . Would seriously improve this game

I'd re sub if they even said they were planning on adding text and combat data a year from now.

Is there more info on this possible UI improvement anywhere?

Elloa · August 2015

Mighty_oakk wrote: »

Junglejim82 wrote: »

What sorcery is this exactly? A new and improved u.i ? With combat data ? Perhaps even text chat ? This excites me I need those numbers I'm sure I'm not the only one . Would seriously improve this game

I'd re sub if they even said they were planning on adding text and combat data a year from now.

Is there more info on this possible UI improvement anywhere?

Mat Firor have discussed about this in the Quake Qon presentation.

I totally agree with you @lordrichter I would have prefered the game would not allow addons wich would have left everyone equal, the most skilled players being the one most attentive to the environement, clues, and combat animation and having the correct reflex.
But I also know that the players like you and me, are probably not the majority. Too much players enjoy to have a interface like WOW. So I gave up the fight and stop to argue.

However, I'll defend theeth and claws, my style of gameplay, and trying to prove that you can be a good, competent and maybe even competitive players without addons (or heavy UI)

Tandor · August 2015

Elloa wrote: »

I personally use ZERO addons, and I intent to continue to play with a immersive interface that do not hide my game. I want to have the possibility to desactivate any of the new UI options you will give in the future, as I feel it would ruin my game pleasure if I had to endure them.

My position exactly.

Etaniel · August 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

In the same way, please, continue to develop the visual clue and spell effect for the players that - like me - want a immersive combat without text, an experience of the game where you pay attention to the action, not the UI

I wish to throw my weight behind this sentiment, as well.

World of Warcraft drives me nuts because of all the floating text, displays, bars, counters, and instructions that have to be on the screen in order to be competitive with other players. I find that text to be distracting, but sadly necessary on World of Warcraft. I am not advocating immersion, but I do like the minimalist UI that I get when games do cater to it.

I find myself preferring the visual cues that have been placed into ESO just because it provides me with information I need without getting overly technical and detailed about it. I have one "combat" add-on, and that is a custom version of Srendarr so that I can keep track of potions and other effects placed on me without having to open my character screen all the time.

It is actually rather nice to play a game where I don't have to worry about the numbers, for once. I don't use add-ons that give me numbers, or tell me when to cast a certain spell or use a particular ability. I consider the latter to be cheating per the ToS since it provides an advantage to Play. I make all of my combat decisions based on red areas on the ground and the events and effects that I see in the world.

However, as I have adjusted to a minimalist UI, I have also learned that it requires a greater level of skill to be good at a game that has an interface like this. I can't say that I have mastered it, and my damage numbers might not be as high as the people who rely on that information to be good in the game.

So, I find myself in the oddest of positions by requesting that ZOS not "dumb down" combat with too much meta UI information, like floating text and numbers, so that it becomes too easy to play the game, and provide a way to selectively turn off that information for those of us who want a more skilled approach to the game.

I do think that an optional Srendarr-like addition to the UI would be warranted. This would provide information about effects on the character, buff and debuff, so that we can be reminded when these things expire.

You cannot rely on visual cues in PvP in this game. In theory, they are enough to give you the info you need to fight your opponent, but it really doesn't happen that way.
First obvious reason is animation cancelling. How are you supposed to know someone cast something if you couldn't see the animation?
If you don't see how much total health your opponent has, how can you have a clue on how big his blazing shield will hit you?

Robbmrp · August 2015

I'm with you @Elloa, most of the Addons I use do not change my UI at all or they are turned off. I do use AUI though so I can have smaller group icons that are transparent. The existing ones we have are too big and take up too much space. I also like to see my stats as a % and not just a decreasing number.

The biggest change they could make for our UI for me would be Guild Store/Email related. We need to be able to have the filters that Awesome Guild Store offers. We also need to be able to see what items were sold when we receive gold from sales. These are basic features and should have been in the game from the start.

Divinius · August 2015

Dear ZOS,

Advanced Filters and Awesome Guild Store.

Go look up these addons. Make them both part of the base game. Do it now.

Pallmor · August 2015

Agreed. I don't want my fantasy MMO screen looking like a control panel on the Enterprise.

This is why I abhor most MMO's:

Zolron · August 2015

Pallmor wrote: »

I don't want my fantasy MMO screen looking like a control panel on the Enterprise.

Love that line !!! Deserves an awesome !

Rune_Relic · August 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

In the same way, please, continue to develop the visual clue and spell effect for the players that - like me - want a immersive combat without text, an experience of the game where you pay attention to the action, not the UI

I wish to throw my weight behind this sentiment, as well.

World of Warcraft drives me nuts because of all the floating text, displays, bars, counters, and instructions that have to be on the screen in order to be competitive with other players. I find that text to be distracting, but sadly necessary on World of Warcraft. I am not advocating immersion, but I do like the minimalist UI that I get when games do cater to it.

I find myself preferring the visual cues that have been placed into ESO just because it provides me with information I need without getting overly technical and detailed about it. I have one "combat" add-on, and that is a custom version of Srendarr so that I can keep track of potions and other effects placed on me without having to open my character screen all the time.

It is actually rather nice to play a game where I don't have to worry about the numbers, for once. I don't use add-ons that give me numbers, or tell me when to cast a certain spell or use a particular ability. I consider the latter to be cheating per the ToS since it provides an advantage to Play. I make all of my combat decisions based on red areas on the ground and the events and effects that I see in the world.

However, as I have adjusted to a minimalist UI, I have also learned that it requires a greater level of skill to be good at a game that has an interface like this. I can't say that I have mastered it, and my damage numbers might not be as high as the people who rely on that information to be good in the game.

So, I find myself in the oddest of positions by requesting that ZOS not "dumb down" combat with too much meta UI information, like floating text and numbers, so that it becomes too easy to play the game, and provide a way to selectively turn off that information for those of us who want a more skilled approach to the game.

I do think that an optional Srendarr-like addition to the UI would be warranted. This would provide information about effects on the character, buff and debuff, so that we can be reminded when these things expire.

You cannot rely on visual cues in PvP in this game. In theory, they are enough to give you the info you need to fight your opponent, but it really doesn't happen that way.
First obvious reason is animation cancelling. How are you supposed to know someone cast something if you couldn't see the animation?
If you don't see how much total health your opponent has, how can you have a clue on how big his blazing shield will hit you?

Agreed. That's a rather large problem for ZOS to fix.
5 attacks in 1 second is a problem with regard tells.
That's why bigger damage skills normally take longer and more easily countered.

Elsonso · August 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

t really doesn't happen that way.
First obvious reason is animation cancelling. How are you supposed to know someone cast something if you couldn't see the animation?
If you don't see how much total health your opponent has, how can you have a clue on how big his blazing shield will hit you?

I don't seriously PVP any more in this game, mostly because my perception is that this is the realm of the cheaters in this game. Between ZOS not doing anything about exploits and the "required" add-ons that ZOS allows that give advantage in the game, this is no longer something that I want to be involved with.

I don't see a reason to know the total health of any opponent in the game, not even PVE opponents. I certainly don't think players need to know how hard they will be hit by some ability. When the time is right, they will have a clue about how hard it hits. I am sorry, but I see this as part of the game.

mrskinskull · August 2015

Azalin76 wrote: »

I agree that optional options are the best way to go. There are some classes that I have no problems with having no add ons because the visual queues are easy to see. Some classes like the dragon knight with the burning visuals are not so easy. In this game burning is burning and you can't really tell the difference between searing strike, firey breath, and just a burning dot from a fire weapon enchant. I would love to see an improvement on this rather than add ons that will clutter and slow down the ui but I would imagine there isn't much they can do.

Also being in a group makes this even more difficult, having another dragon knight in your group gives no hope of ever knowing if it's your burning effects or theirs. If they are going to give us an add on like this then I would prefer to see only my effects on my enemy.

I for one do not want to end up playing an mmo that LOOKS like an mmo.

Gawdy text chat boxes and floating text and numbers will really please the hardcore niche crowd but will likely make the game appear way too intimidating for new players to pickup.

I turn off much of my Ui even in PvP.

I like ESO to look classy and elegant.

mrskinskull · August 2015

Double post, sorry.

mrskinskull · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

When things like SCT go in, you will have the option to toggle them off or on.

Will the added data create more lag for the entire community even if they have it toggled off?

Cyrodil especially.

Thanks.

icontested · August 2015

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Do I have the option on Optional Options?

Just FYI, French is Elloa's first language, not English. There are a lot of non-native English speakers on these forums, so it helps to cut people some slack if they aren't spot on with English grammar and usage.

Just an FYI - There was no insult or attack on Elloa in the slightest. It was a play on the xzibit Meme, which clearly @icontested got, and you sir, did not

After seeing this post, it is clear I can go back into my cryo chamber for another 7 days of rapid learning.

Thank you

UrQuan · August 2015

Thanks for this thread @Elloa you've expressed my concerns (and evidently those of many others) very succinctly. Just as importantly, you've elicited a very reassuring response from @ZOS_RichLambert that I'm very pleased to see.

I'm definitely in favour of ZOS adding all kinds of different UI elements to the game based on what people want, as long as all of those elements are optional, so this thread makes me happy.

WolffenBloodseeker · August 2015

I'm mainly a PVP player and totally agree with the OP, the only addons i use in ESO are to add more immersive things like the immersive journal mod, remove parts of the UI and resize them (my compass is very very small and i just don't totally disable it like i did in all previous TES games because PVP is too fast paced and i would lose to much time looking at the map to see the right direction of a nearby battle or keep)

dday3six · August 2015

mrskinskull wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

When things like SCT go in, you will have the option to toggle them off or on.

Will the added data create more lag for the entire community even if they have it toggled off?

Cyrodil especially.

Thanks.

It's making the data running in the background visible. Even if players don't see damage numbers or timers, the game is still tracking that info.

zornyan · August 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

t really doesn't happen that way.
First obvious reason is animation cancelling. How are you supposed to know someone cast something if you couldn't see the animation?
If you don't see how much total health your opponent has, how can you have a clue on how big his blazing shield will hit you?

I don't seriously PVP any more in this game, mostly because my perception is that this is the realm of the cheaters in this game. Between ZOS not doing anything about exploits and the "required" add-ons that ZOS allows that give advantage in the game, this is no longer something that I want to be involved with.

I don't see a reason to know the total health of any opponent in the game, not even PVE opponents. I certainly don't think players need to know how hard they will be hit by some ability. When the time is right, they will have a clue about how hard it hits. I am sorry, but I see this as part of the game.

Er you do realise many skills in this game are based off or only work on opponents with less than 50% or some at 25% health right?

How the hell are you supposed to use executioner or a heal spamming mage when you don't know if he's at 25% or 90% hp?