Dagoth_Rac wrote: »I still think this is a problem for US DC because while they will have access to IC, they will be significantly outnumbered. DC will get into IC, just to be stomped by enemy players. Being underpopulated in Cyrodiil is not the end of the world, due to how spread out it is. You are not constantly being run over by huge numbers of enemy players. You can use some hit and run tactics, attack in places where it takes the enemy some time to react and reach you. But an underpopulated faction in the confined quarters of IC is going to be clearly and visibly overwhelmed at all times. There will be no escaping the superior numbers of the opposing factions.
Dagoth_Rac wrote: »It is not like DC is underpopulated but everyone is a superstar PVP player. Or that EP is overpopulated but they are all idiots. The overpopulated factions have more of everything. More bad players, but also more good players. So superior numbers make a huge difference. And they will make an even bigger difference in IC, where the faction imbalances will be more keenly felt.
olemanwinter wrote: »Great wall of meaningful text.
Robotmafia wrote: »wasnt there talk of a campaign where alle factions can enter IC regardless of keeps held in Cyro
Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »The thing you fail to mention is that while DC is locked out of IC their FULL force will be in Cyrodiil while the other alliances will have half their forces in IC. While this happens there is no reason DC shouldn't be bale to take back their home keeps + to gain access to IC.
Yes they are out number and will lose IC access again and over time they will have the least amount of access time. But the design will allow them to gain access. every day, multiple times.
Controlling or having access to IC is a reward. So why shouldn't the sides that are winning the most have the most access?
When a side can cut off access to another alliance they make the content inside much more controlled. A lot of people would rather have a little bit of controlled PVE acces inside rather than being able to go their 24/7 and having it always pure gankfest where nothing can be accomlished
ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »@Jules forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2024746/#Comment_2024746
Initial entrance is what is what we're discussing there and will be tested on PTS. Once you're inside IC or the Sewers, you can log out and log back in there to your hearts content, even if you lose Access in rule-sets where it's gated by Keep ownership.
I find the notion that you have to pay for something and then cannot access it without first setting up the prerequisites yourself amusing.
Kind of like when you pay for WoW expansions, but can't access content until X level?
Or when a raid you have purchased with the DLC/expansion is "locked" until you have certain ilvl?
I really don't get this argument.
That was something I was pondering. Right now, emps on AD and EP* can hold Daggerfall back completely on Thornblade. Campaigns are changing, sure, but right now DC has trouble mustering up more than a dozen people. While we have some people who work really great together, mustering up enough people of the same skill and caliber is REALLY hard. Emps ride in, wipe lesser players instantly.In absolute agreement. It is very hard for Daggerfall Covenant to hold any advantage, even starting at total map control, in the East Coast's Evening hours.
mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »A simple solution to the problem US DC are having would be to have 1 campaign in which access to IC is unrestricted. Thus more casual players can home or guest there and always play inside when they feel like it.
But for all other campaigns, there needs to be a lock out mechanism. One of the functions of IC is to work as an incentive to fight for the Cyrodiil map. Another function is to balance out population in campaigns where one faction dominates. You can't remove that.
Also, I personally believe if all factions have access to IC all the time, it will be total chaos in there. Too many players in a relatively small (smaller than the Cyrodiil map) area, too much lag, too much zerging.
So yeah, I feel one unrestricted campaign and one where you have to hold your home keeps is a more balanced solution.
AP isn't actually easy to get on Thornblade. There's been periods during prime time (6pm - 10pm?) where I've ridden around for almost an hour trying to find somebody to kill and can't. Usually I'll take the Rayles LM and hope AD come, but sometimes I have to ride out to the EP gates and hope to find AD campers or kill the seemingly 1 or 2 EP online. It's not usually that bad, but it can be. Further, Thornblade seems to be where most new players go. For whatever reason, they see Thornblade and Azura's Star as the default, and all the level 10s join Thorn for some PVP, discover no fights or that they're trounced by gate campers and quit.You've made a lot of good points @Preyfar. I just want to address the "cost of campaign jumping" item. I understand the intent of this change, but I don't actually believe it will be a barrier, especially to the individuals and groups that are perceived as being the problem. AP is already easy to accrue a lot of, and 2.1 doesn't bring anything better to spend it on than campaign jumping. Most of us already have a couple mil AP, what's 150k, or even several hundred thousand to move around looking for a different fight?
ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Looking forward, we will be monitoring the campaign populations when the Imperial City is released to see if more campaigns are required to meet demand. We are aware this could induce "Aldmeri's IC" or similar situations, so we will monitor the population carefully to protect against that as much as possible.
In the meantime, keep playing on the PTS and giving us feedback! It's been invaluable thus far and it's really great to see everyone finally roaming the streets and sewers of the Imperial City!
I'm waiting until we get to test a different set of rules for access for a real stance, but already I am thinking having different campaigns with different access rules would be awesome. Some people LOVE the constant crowded PvP inside IC that comes from access all the time, where others would prefer to have to fight for it so once they clear out most of the enemy players it's a bit less PvP. If different campaigns had different rules, people would be able to join the campaign that suites them.
Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »The thing you fail to mention is that while DC is locked out of IC their FULL force will be in Cyrodiil while the other alliances will have half their forces in IC. While this happens there is no reason DC shouldn't be bale to take back their home keeps + to gain access to IC.
Yes they are out number and will lose IC access again and over time they will have the least amount of access time. But the design will allow them to gain access. every day, multiple times.
Controlling or having access to IC is a reward. So why shouldn't the sides that are winning the most have the most access?
When a side can cut off access to another alliance they make the content inside much more controlled. A lot of people would rather have a little bit of controlled PVE acces inside rather than being able to go their 24/7 and having it always pure gankfest where nothing can be accomlished
The concept of end game PvE being gated behind PvP turns alot of players off. More than half my friends including my Mom (yes my 60+ year old Mom plays ESO) are contemplating not even buying the DLC simply because they don't want to have to PvP in way, shape, or fashion. I will agree that PvP players have needed a bone thrown there way for a while now but contrary to what you see on the forums MOST ESO player are not dedicated PvP players and the don't consider PvP to be end-game. The forums just happen to be chocked full of PvP players complaining about this ability or that one being unbalanced. Which they very will might be FOR PvP but not so much for PvE. Why the Devs can't separate ability effect for PvP and PvE with the Battle Spirit buff I don't know, but that is an argument for a different topic.
Make access tied to a transitus route to a faction emperor keep. If you can port to Aleswell/Ash, Blueroad/Chalman or Roebeck/Alessia respectively, you can enter. Again, clicky first link in my signature.
Gives importance to dragon/drake/brindle since these are the shortest routes and two keeps can be taken against a dominating faction with a bit of coordination.
Make access tied to a transitus route to a faction emperor keep. If you can port to Aleswell/Ash, Blueroad/Chalman or Roebeck/Alessia respectively, you can enter. Again, clicky first link in my signature.
Gives importance to dragon/drake/brindle since these are the shortest routes and two keeps can be taken against a dominating faction with a bit of coordination.
Why don't make the IC entrances be part of the transit network?
That way if you lose the surrounding keeps you only lose the "convenient" way to access them, and can still ride to them as normally.
The the corresponding IC entrance is connected, you can directly travel to it from your alliance gate, to a transit node inside the base... And also add a transit node to be able to transit out of it too, of course!
AP isn't actually easy to get on Thornblade. There's been periods during prime time (6pm - 10pm?) where I've ridden around for almost an hour trying to find somebody to kill and can't. Usually I'll take the Rayles LM and hope AD come, but sometimes I have to ride out to the EP gates and hope to find AD campers or kill the seemingly 1 or 2 EP online. It's not usually that bad, but it can be. Further, Thornblade seems to be where most new players go. For whatever reason, they see Thornblade and Azura's Star as the default, and all the level 10s join Thorn for some PVP, discover no fights or that they're trounced by gate campers and quit.You've made a lot of good points @Preyfar. I just want to address the "cost of campaign jumping" item. I understand the intent of this change, but I don't actually believe it will be a barrier, especially to the individuals and groups that are perceived as being the problem. AP is already easy to accrue a lot of, and 2.1 doesn't bring anything better to spend it on than campaign jumping. Most of us already have a couple mil AP, what's 150k, or even several hundred thousand to move around looking for a different fight?
We try to suggest going to Backwater Blade, but they don't have the AP to jump there... and never end up getting it. You can get AP on Thorn. Some day it's easy, other days it's really, REALLY hard and you have to work at it. Thornblade has no players. Again, I know that will change with IC, but even if we tripled our players on DC's side we'd still be outnumbered 3:1.
At the risk of being foolish... its lore man. <snip>
This is the best idea I have seen in this whole thread. Can you get a route to the city (via one of the close keeps)? Then have fun in there.