Imperial City First Impression

Deltia · July 2015

Hello ESO Forums,

I wanted to leave my thoughts so far on Imp City even though I have it on my website. I know ZOS is looking for feedback and I'm just one of many ESO players to have an opinion.

http://youtu.be/mSSRVRn7F1k

ESO Imperial City First Impressions
PvE

I’ve spent the majority of my time playing both dungeons (vet and non vet) and love them. I can tell ZOS has constantly improved their dungeon diving experience and I’m really enjoying the atmosphere and polish. The new mechanics are interesting and I don’t want to spoil anything, but the PvE meta will change from all out damage to sustained and survivability (yep even DPS). The cries for different type of encounters have been answered, some needing 4 DPS, some 2 healers, all in the same dungeon.

That’s the good, the bad part of PvE is the feeling my DPS has been cut in half (probably exaggerated). We did some DPS test and I was struggling to pull 12,000 single target damage (same gear, same boss, same CP, etc) whereas my Templar Omega could hit the 24,000 mark. While I think DPS needs to be limited as not only rewarding strong DPS character, the clear cut in half seems a bit too strong. This could be wrong, could be tuned in the later weeks, but I really don’t like the overall feel of “slower combat.”

Another positive is the attention needed to complete these dungeons. No longer can you smash Spears 1,000x on a group of mobs while eating a sandwich. If you miss one cast, one block, one heal, you and your team are dead (in vet mode). Additionally, the changes to tanking (no stamina recovery while blocking) and healing (harder to kill mobs) makes those two roles 10,000x more rewarding for me personally. Now tanks are back BEING TANKS. Monster mitigation, control and armor. Healers are back to massive heals, group utility and synergy. Love PvE so far.
PvP

The state of PvP is in flux, but what I can tell you Imperial City combat/PvP at its current state is nothing short of an adrenaline ride straight through Daedric hell. It is an utterly amazing experience. You are constantly in the fight, FINALLY. Something I can click, pick up and 10 minutes later be face smashing other players. It’s close quarters in your face action that Cyrodiil hasn’t given me. However, it comes with a steep cost of lowering damage/shields/healing by 50%. I don’t know if that amount will stick but it’s changed a lot of things.

Mostly, players have more time to react and counter an opponents attacks. I’m not the super elite PvPer like Sypher and it’s been interesting to see his take on the changes. In my opinion, it seems too much, players should die because of poor builds, reaction time and unpreparedness. It seems now you can yolo into the fray and not feel punished the same way for making a mistake (me Invasion without Reflective Scales up). For my play-style, I think a 25% change would be much better overall, but we need more testing and more players testing.
Itemization and Reply ability

This is probably my most disappointed part of the update. The new items feel a bit “meh” and the lengths needed to get them are extraordinary. We haven’t discovered them all, but most are on my site and I’m not that impressed. With only two new dungeons to master, It’ll be no time until those items have been farmed out and only one helm is relevant to DPS builds.

I love this new update, but that might be because it’s new. I constantly ask myself, “besides having fun, what’s the point to go into Imperial City?” I haven’t really found one. Yes it’s great, but it doesn’t have that long term factor needed to keep me coming back. Especially since there’s no skill line, Alliance Rank or Tel Var rank to accumulate. It feels like an uncontrolled chaotic frenzy that fun at first, might not have the rewards to keep me coming back. But I could be wrong, I have been before many of times

Overall

I think IC or Imperial City is a great edition to the game that needs a new skill line or some other type of incentive for me to keep coming back. It’s enough for me to make many and many guides for months to come, but without a trial or a PvP arena I’m a little disappointed. HOWEVER, ZOS did a great job with balance and the environment. I don’t remember the last time I paused my stream, turned off my music and just sat back and watched NPCs. It’s that cool.

Robbmrp · July 2015

Well said. I haven't tried dungeons yet but your dead on with PVP. I will have to give them a go and see how far we can get.

I know exactly what you mean also about no reason to go back to IC. With the really diminished returns from V15-V16 gear, IMO there's no reason to go there for crafting purposes. From the sets they've added, it's not worth the risk of a constant gankfest just to craft 1 piece of armor you had to farm 3 weeks just to get enough materials to make. When you finally do get the materials, your better off using an existing set instead of trying to fight people to craft armor.

Ra'Shtar · July 2015

IMO sorc shield stacking is way too much in 1v1 against a magicka templar.

Fissh · July 2015

I will attach my review to this thread as not to have a litter of "my first impression" threads.

PVE: The challenges were great. I enjoyed the new mechanics. I haven't done everything, but what I have experienced was entertaining to say the least. I think White Gold Tower was a missed opportunity to be a Trial, but I digress due to the complete lack of PVP content since launch. I mean, who doesn't want some large scale PVE action in something as iconic as the White Gold Tower?

PVP/IC: I freaking loved it. Can we get a "Killed Enemy Players" quest hub there please? The fray is almost immediate, and the excitement is as well. I will reserve to much judgement on the 100% TV exchange on a kill. I do, however, like some previous suggestions to retaining a base amount. 100-500, roughly, would appease the non leet PVPers, I think. Again though, more time will give more clarity. The reward bags can offset things for the casuals, maybe. A casuals game plan could simply be: do the work for an initial 10k of TV while saving your bags (deposit 500-1000 throughout your gameplay), withdraw your 10k from bank to get the 4x multiplier, open bags, deposit. Keeping 10k in bank at all times to maximize your bag output. And there you go, a casual way to efficiently still earn stones in a dog eat dog world.

Crafting: the initial response when I seen the amount of mats was WTF! But I digressed. This could be one of the things to answer Deltia's "why will we keep coming to IC?" In this case, to earn mats. Side note to that question: to earn all trophies needed to open those doors! I think the mat amounts will bring a bit more to the crafters values. Overtime, the mat amount will probably be irrelevant, but the initial release will create much needed value to crafting outside of gold mats. I did not find the new craftable sets appealing. I did like some of the dropped and purchasable sets nice though. The crafting stations being in the fray seemed silly, and the fact that they are not all 9trait required did as well.

Summary: Large Scale PVE next please!!! Anyways, overall I truly enjoyed it. I can log in and quickly PVP in a tense and satisfying environment. I will be devouring this until the next DLC!

ZOS_RichLambert · July 2015

/lurk

Teiji · July 2015

Heavy armor set for 'Warriors', increasing weapon damage or spell damage.

Storm Knight & Elf Bane are heavy armor magicka sets and are pre Imperial City patch, are there really zero heavy armor dps item sets with Imperial City?

I expected at least one of the new, heavy armor sets which are; 'incredible gear obtained only by Tel Var Stones!' was going to be dangerous.

Both of them benefit tanking, why not one of them be for defensive heavy warriors and one set by for offensive heavy warriors?

What could be considered offensive for a heavy armor warrior? Well, heavy warriors are supposed to be sturdy, so what about having a 5 set bonus which has a chance to return, reflect or even store damage before reflecting it back into an attack.

Neither one of those sets scream "I'm a heavy magicka dk, I want this" , you're better of with 5/5 heavy Seducer, Torug Pact, Willow's Path or whatever. They could have decided to have multiple minor defensive bonuses, with the 5 piece for the offensive, aggressive heavy armor set being something which has a chance to deal damage upon being hit, or simply something which empowers shield bash or does X amount of damage on hit with a % chance to do so.

But nope, the 'cool and powerful' heavy armor sets are not practical to use if you want to kill someone. Better of with Elfbane, Storm Knight, Seducer, Torugs and so on.

Reactive armor seems to be the closest thing, but to get the most out of it you want to stay CC'd to burn your enemies resources whilst taking damage under CC, which is an absurd idea as clearly, it's supposed to improve survivability when you are CC'd, which, once again makes a defence more stronger.

@ZOS_RichLambert I'm really excited for the item sets, polymorphs and fighting NPCs which seem to be slightly stronger than the Veteran Content from a while ago, where they were really angry mobs which required you to respect them in order to survive. Imperial City feels like it's under occupation by a terrifying Daedric invasion force whom don't eat nor sleep.

That said, I understand Rome wasn't built in a day, but I love the aesthetics of the faction gear within Imperial City, is there any hope for players whom want to wear 5/5 heavy armor but play offensively such as the "The unreliable shadows don't protect me, my reliable and sturdy heavy armor protects me whilst empowering my martial prowess, I am the typical heavy armoured warrior archetype character."

There exist item sets to help accommodate these play styles already, but nothing looks anywhere as good as the faction gear and is something many of us aspire to collect, even if it's just for cosmetic purposes. Heavy armor which looks great whilst empowering aggressive play styles is something I long for.

Preyfar · July 2015

I'm... mixed. I'm really waiting for the final patch notes to have an opinion, but thus far everyone is dreading this to be the Star Wars Galaxy-esque NGE. All my builds have taken really big nerfs, all the tanks in my guilds are pondering leaving, and... I dunno. I'm hoping some things get tweaked a bit more, but as it is... I dunno.

I'm optimistic, but REALLY concerned.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Deltia wrote: »

Now tanks are back BEING TANKS. Monster mitigation, control and armor. Healers are back to massive heals, group utility and synergy. Love PvE so far.

"...blocking when appropriate, but not just sitting there blocking over and over. You are actually going to have do to damage like I'm doing right here because damage is what kills things. I know that is an obvious statement, but if your not killing stuff you are going to be tanking a lot longer. The goal here is to do damage and tank at the same time." - Deltia October 2014

Thank you for the update Deltia!

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Deltia wrote: »

Now tanks are back BEING TANKS. Monster mitigation, control and armor. Healers are back to massive heals, group utility and synergy. Love PvE so far.

"...blocking when appropriate, but not just sitting there blocking over and over. You are actually going to have do to damage like I'm doing right here because damage is what kills things. I know that is an obvious statement, but if your not killing stuff you are going to be tanking a lot longer. The goal here is to do damage and tank at the same time." - Deltia October 2014

Thank you for the update Deltia!

You're welcome, that's the same impression I was giving also when posting about tanking in the new patch

. They really nailed it, in a good way, with the changes.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Deltia wrote: »

Now tanks are back BEING TANKS. Monster mitigation, control and armor. Healers are back to massive heals, group utility and synergy. Love PvE so far.

"...blocking when appropriate, but not just sitting there blocking over and over. You are actually going to have do to damage like I'm doing right here because damage is what kills things. I know that is an obvious statement, but if your not killing stuff you are going to be tanking a lot longer. The goal here is to do damage and tank at the same time." - Deltia October 2014

Thank you for the update Deltia!

You're welcome, that's the same impression I was giving also when posting about tanking in the new patch . They really nailed it, in a good way, with the changes.

The iron eludes you

Draehl · July 2015

My take on the PvP bit in very basic terms:

Players should run out of resources after 2-3 minutes of fighting. Bigger max resource pools, but less regen. I would also address this via the battle spirit buff.
Burst needs to be more effective (closer to live), but at the same time more resource intensive in some manner so burst builds struggle when in a sustained fight.
Heals need to cost more, and emergency heals significantly more so. Bringing someone back from the brink of death should be as equally intensive as bursting them down to it.

Try those three tweaks and see how things pan out...

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Deltia wrote: »

Now tanks are back BEING TANKS. Monster mitigation, control and armor. Healers are back to massive heals, group utility and synergy. Love PvE so far.

"...blocking when appropriate, but not just sitting there blocking over and over. You are actually going to have do to damage like I'm doing right here because damage is what kills things. I know that is an obvious statement, but if your not killing stuff you are going to be tanking a lot longer. The goal here is to do damage and tank at the same time." - Deltia October 2014

Thank you for the update Deltia!

You're welcome, that's the same impression I was giving also when posting about tanking in the new patch . They really nailed it, in a good way, with the changes.

The iron eludes you

Not really. Here was my feedback as to tanking and the changes, verbatim:

"It's broken as-is on live, just as Negate stacking in Trials was, where you didn't need to have large amounts of healing to deal with mechanics, instead just stacking inside and dps'ing your heart out with the healers doing the same 75% of the time. The medium armor idea was just one idea out of many that people can adjust to deal with the change now that they'll have to face a small number more of the mechanics that they could previously outright ignore. And yes, an extreme number of people are complaining very, very strongly that tanking will be impossible for the vast majority if not all players, in some threads such as Nifty2g's, which being a complaint attracts much more activity than a positive one like here

. That's typical on anything you can think of online, where the rate of people posting product reviews to complain is several orders of magnitude higher than those who go to say "This thing's great, I'm glad I got it!". The change is overall going to be a very large net positive for ESO, just as changing the damage spikes and healing spikes in PVP will be from the Battle Spirit changes. I still would bet the farm that the blocking change is either equally aimed at both"

Lines up exactly with Delia's remarks where he speaks of no longer sitting holding block and having to actually tank, now

.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Draehl wrote: »

My take on the PvP bit in very basic terms:

[*] Burst needs to be more effective (closer to live), but at the same time more resource intensive in some manner so burst builds struggle when in a sustained fight.

Try those three tweaks and see how things pan out...

The Molag Kena set is right up both of our alleys then

, assuming it means three light attacks and isn't reset by skill usage in between, in a row quickly .

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Deltia wrote: »

Now tanks are back BEING TANKS. Monster mitigation, control and armor. Healers are back to massive heals, group utility and synergy. Love PvE so far.

"...blocking when appropriate, but not just sitting there blocking over and over. You are actually going to have do to damage like I'm doing right here because damage is what kills things. I know that is an obvious statement, but if your not killing stuff you are going to be tanking a lot longer. The goal here is to do damage and tank at the same time." - Deltia October 2014

Thank you for the update Deltia!

You're welcome, that's the same impression I was giving also when posting about tanking in the new patch . They really nailed it, in a good way, with the changes.

The iron eludes you

Not really. Here was my feedback as to tanking and the changes, verbatim:

"It's broken as-is on live, just as Negate stacking in Trials was, where you didn't need to have large amounts of healing to deal with mechanics, instead just stacking inside and dps'ing your heart out with the healers doing the same 75% of the time. The medium armor idea was just one idea out of many that people can adjust to deal with the change now that they'll have to face a small number more of the mechanics that they could previously outright ignore. And yes, an extreme number of people are complaining very, very strongly that tanking will be impossible for the vast majority if not all players, in some threads such as Nifty2g's, which being a complaint attracts much more activity than a positive one like here . That's typical on anything you can think of online, where the rate of people posting product reviews to complain is several orders of magnitude higher than those who go to say "This thing's great, I'm glad I got it!". The change is overall going to be a very large net positive for ESO, just as changing the damage spikes and healing spikes in PVP will be from the Battle Spirit changes. I still would bet the farm that the blocking change is either equally aimed at both"

Lines up exactly with Delia's remarks where he speaks of no longer sitting holding block and having to actually tank, now .

And it also ignores, in multiple ways, Deltia's quote from 2014.

Draehl · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

My take on the PvP bit in very basic terms:

[*] Burst needs to be more effective (closer to live), but at the same time more resource intensive in some manner so burst builds struggle when in a sustained fight.

Try those three tweaks and see how things pan out...

The Molag Kena set is right up both of our alleys then , assuming it means three light attacks and isn't reset by skill usage in between, in a row quickly .

I'm actually a sustained damage/offhealer type myself. I appreciate the give-and-take element in PvP (in other games) where the burster has a significant advantage early on, but if they fail to capitalize the sustain player comes roaring back to take the advantage away. Everyone should run out of resources, eventually, but it should be a matter of gradients of sustain, balancing potency versus efficiency.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Draehl wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

My take on the PvP bit in very basic terms:

[*] Burst needs to be more effective (closer to live), but at the same time more resource intensive in some manner so burst builds struggle when in a sustained fight.

Try those three tweaks and see how things pan out...

The Molag Kena set is right up both of our alleys then , assuming it means three light attacks and isn't reset by skill usage in between, in a row quickly .

I'm actually a sustained damage/offhealer type myself. I appreciate the give-and-take element in PvP (in other games) where the burster has a significant advantage early on, but if they fail to capitalize the sustain player comes roaring back to take the advantage away. Everyone should run out of resources, eventually, but it should be a matter of gradients of sustain, balancing potency versus efficiency.

Fair point

. I'm reserving judgement for now until we see how things play out a bit more... I'm pretty much the same way you describe your own play: a sustained damager, meant to not die in a stray breeze with some offhealing to do so, rather than a glass cannon firing in a blaze of flaming glory until it's shattered by just one or two hits

. My main point was, as far as that particular set goes, is that it's a potentially nice option to give a gradient on that front: sustain for the most part, but brief periods of higher burst at the cost of that (with the 50% resource cost increase). There may need to be more work, like you said, on some of the itemization to allow for more granularity, but I'm expecting the gameplay to change a bit as more people adjust and spend time building on the new patch changes.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Deltia wrote: »

Now tanks are back BEING TANKS. Monster mitigation, control and armor. Healers are back to massive heals, group utility and synergy. Love PvE so far.

"...blocking when appropriate, but not just sitting there blocking over and over. You are actually going to have do to damage like I'm doing right here because damage is what kills things. I know that is an obvious statement, but if your not killing stuff you are going to be tanking a lot longer. The goal here is to do damage and tank at the same time." - Deltia October 2014

Thank you for the update Deltia!

You're welcome, that's the same impression I was giving also when posting about tanking in the new patch . They really nailed it, in a good way, with the changes.

The iron eludes you

Not really. Here was my feedback as to tanking and the changes, verbatim:

Lines up exactly with Delia's remarks where he speaks of no longer sitting holding block and having to actually tank, now .

And it also ignores, in multiple ways, Deltia's quote from 2014.

2014... long before 1.6 . Exactly my point: the changes now, in late July 2015? They are bringing the game back to its roots, and it's great! Being indignant may score some cheap agree flags... but it doesn't say much else. I occasionally have made some joking ribs at @Deltia likening his blog and such to Linus' Tech Tips. I don't get much out of Linus' youtube videos for technology, either... but I'm quite sure he too knows his stuff

. and likewise I equally believe @Deltia knows his stuff when he actually plays in-game.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

2014... long before 1.6 . Exactly my point: the changes now, in late July 2015? They are bringing the game back to its roots, and it's great! Being indignant may score some cheap agree flags... but it doesn't say much else. I occasionally have made some joking ribs at @Deltia likening his blog and such to Linus' Tech Tips. I don't get much out of Linus' youtube videos for technology, either... but I'm quite sure he too knows his stuff . and likewise I equally believe @Deltia knows his stuff when he actually plays in-game.

Never has anything with regards to 2014 been your point because you have never talked about 2014 meta before. Again, you seem to want to frame anything that anyone says as, somehow, agreeing with some master thought that you have.

What Deltia said in 2014 is going to apply to the game regardless of the time period. If tanking can be done while dealing damage, then it is something that tanks should consider so that they can make fights smoother. If anything, what Deltia said in 2014 was visionary, or a 'root' as you put it, when comparing his words to what people are doing today in VDSA.

Fissh · July 2015

more PVP impressions:

I had my first encounter with spawn point farming. 4-8 opposing faction (typically of one color) hanging out at the spawn point. I can get 1-2 of them down before dying, rinse and repeat. I did not have a group of my own. I was committed to the spot for the sake of a quest.
Anywho..., Respawn timers? The flow of people into the farm fest ganking is silly. Me included. The assailants can flow back into battle almost instantly as well after death.
Two ideas:
Death timer. You have to wait 30secs before you can leave the spawn point after rezzing there. Alternatively, you remain dead for 30secs before you can release unless battle rezzed.
Bubble the spawn point: the bubble 'pops' every 30secs for 5secs 'open' time. This will at least somewhat 'group' us solo suicide kings into at least a psuedo group.

This is total spit balling here. I will have to admit that this will seemingly be a much bigger problem on live servers.

DDuke · July 2015

Fissh wrote: »

more PVP impressions:

I had my first encounter with spawn point farming. 4-8 opposing faction (typically of one color) hanging out at the spawn point. I can get 1-2 of them down before dying, rinse and repeat. I did not have a group of my own. I was committed to the spot for the sake of a quest.
Anywho..., Respawn timers? The flow of people into the farm fest ganking is silly. Me included. The assailants can flow back into battle almost instantly as well after death.
Two ideas:
Death timer. You have to wait 30secs before you can leave the spawn point after rezzing there. Alternatively, you remain dead for 30secs before you can release unless battle rezzed.
Bubble the spawn point: the bubble 'pops' every 30secs for 5secs 'open' time. This will at least somewhat 'group' us solo suicide kings into at least a psuedo group.

This is total spit balling here. I will have to admit that this will seemingly be a much bigger problem on live servers.

I think the spawn points were made with the "your faction must own X keeps to gain access to Imperial CIty" in mind.

That way, only players from faction that had access to IC would be able to spawn at these locations, while players from factions without access would be thrown out of IC altogether.