Fear has some... issues...

Perphection · April 2015

You wouldn't think it would be all that difficult to break CC's, but here we are... 1-year later and still issues. I'm salty as hell because I am sick and *** tired of dying because of this. Dying with full resources because you cannot break the CC is ***.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude, Insulting, and Bashing comments]

TheBucket · April 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Orchish wrote: »

Combined with wrecking blow and falling through the map every single time i am on a slight incline, it really has become my most feared ability to fight against.

I don't quite mind the falling through the map, it prevents them from killing you. The ability needs one of it's components removed though, obviously not the fear part, so the snare, or the damage debuff need to go, and I'm more partial to the snare going, because it's laughable and useless, the damage debuff is one of the Nightblade's defense mechanisms and should stay. Still think that the whole change of Fear forcing you to drop block is utter *** because in that .5 seconds that block is dropped they can hit you with Incap Strike for 10k and Surprise Attack/Concealed Weapon for 5-8k depending on spell damage and crit, then usually you CC break, and you can't heal because Incap strike puts the debuff on you. So the Impale/Killer's Blade spam murders you through block or damage shields.

Concealed Weapon will never hit for 8k.

@TheBucket maybe if you're running a build with virtually no spell damage.... Mine hits for 8k on crits on a daily basis, and if I use entropy for the empower on next attacks it'd be higher.

I was being sarcastic lol

Spangla · April 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

Fear is the single most powerful ability in the entire game. At least Mass Hysteria is. Coming from a guy who's main is a Nightblade.

Mass Hysteria is a stun. A snare. A damage debuff. Forces up to three people to drop block. Causes them to fall through the map. Sometimes. And on the very rare occasions, it's completely unbreakable even with full stamina.

In short, it's utterly broken and unbalanced.

I'd swap it for hardened ward right now please.

I'd swap it for Reflective scales right now please.

I'd swap it for blazing shield right now please.

technohic · April 2015

Spangla wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Fear is the single most powerful ability in the entire game. At least Mass Hysteria is. Coming from a guy who's main is a Nightblade.

Mass Hysteria is a stun. A snare. A damage debuff. Forces up to three people to drop block. Causes them to fall through the map. Sometimes. And on the very rare occasions, it's completely unbreakable even with full stamina.

In short, it's utterly broken and unbalanced.

I'd swap it for blazing shield right now please.

BWAHAHAHAA! DEAL! Devs, this is binding. Make it so.

vortexman11 · April 2015

Spangla wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Fear is the single most powerful ability in the entire game. At least Mass Hysteria is. Coming from a guy who's main is a Nightblade.

Mass Hysteria is a stun. A snare. A damage debuff. Forces up to three people to drop block. Causes them to fall through the map. Sometimes. And on the very rare occasions, it's completely unbreakable even with full stamina.

In short, it's utterly broken and unbalanced.

I'd swap it for hardened ward right now please.

I'd swap it for blazing shield right now please.

Fair trade as night blades have no damage shields that I know of

Spangla · April 2015

technohic wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Fear is the single most powerful ability in the entire game. At least Mass Hysteria is. Coming from a guy who's main is a Nightblade.

Mass Hysteria is a stun. A snare. A damage debuff. Forces up to three people to drop block. Causes them to fall through the map. Sometimes. And on the very rare occasions, it's completely unbreakable even with full stamina.

In short, it's utterly broken and unbalanced.

I'd swap it for blazing shield right now please.

BWAHAHAHAA! DEAL! Devs, this is binding. Make it so.

A class shield or fear..... shield please obviously....

Varicite · April 2015

technohic wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Fear is the single most powerful ability in the entire game. At least Mass Hysteria is. Coming from a guy who's main is a Nightblade.

Mass Hysteria is a stun. A snare. A damage debuff. Forces up to three people to drop block. Causes them to fall through the map. Sometimes. And on the very rare occasions, it's completely unbreakable even with full stamina.

In short, it's utterly broken and unbalanced.

I'd swap it for blazing shield right now please.

BWAHAHAHAA! DEAL! Devs, this is binding. Make it so.

You get a CC, we get a shield.

Now everyone's happy, right?

ZOS_GinaBruno · April 2015

You're correct. Fear does have some issues. We can tell you that we've identified the issue that was causing you to fall through the ground, or through the map entirely, and are testing the fix we've implemented. We hope to get this out in an incremental patch in the near future.

Weberda · April 2015

I don't know how you can even classify it as a skill. It's just a total cheeseball effect. Get rid of it and give NB's some kind of shield ability.

Varicite · April 2015

Weberda wrote: »

I don't know how you can even classify it as a skill. It's just a total cheeseball effect. Get rid of it and give NB's some kind of shield ability.

You're right. Take off the part where it snares you and debuffs your damage.

Instead, make it an unblockable stun that makes people stand in place for the duration, no snare needed now.

Win?

Mojomonkeyman · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

You're correct. Fear does have some issues. We can tell you that we've identified the issue that was causing you to fall through the ground, or through the map entirely, and are testing the fix we've implemented. We hope to get this out in an incremental patch in the near future.

@ZOS_GinaBruno: Do you also look into why fear is very difficult to break nowadays and that fear, in the current state of the game (one-shot-wars) might have to be adjusted to not be more deciding than any ultimate?

A one second delay (which is pretty much standard atm playing in Cyrodiil) from break-free to any defensive maneuver is currently causing certain death, even when breaking immediately.

vortexman11 · April 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Weberda wrote: »

I don't know how you can even classify it as a skill. It's just a total cheeseball effect. Get rid of it and give NB's some kind of shield ability.

You're right. Take off the part where it snares you and debuffs your damage.

Instead, make it an unblockable stun that makes people stand in place for the duration, no snare needed now.

Win?

^^^^^^^^^^^ With the same break on damage mechanics as the others

tinythinker · April 2015

Weberda wrote: »

I don't know how you can even classify it as a skill. It's just a total cheeseball effect. Get rid of it and give NB's some kind of shield ability.

The concept is that different classes have different strengths/weaknesses and cater to particular playstyles. Nightblades are geared toward ambushes, using stealth to avoid damage, and using illusions (fear magic is part of the illusion school in TES) to manipulate foes. Of course, Nightblades can grab a damage shield from a Restoration Staff (Ward Ally/Healing Ward), a Two-Handed Weapon (Brawler), One Handed and Shield (Shielded Assault) or they can wear heavy armor (and get a bonus to the latter with when using Shadow abilities thanks to the changes to the Shadow Barrier passive), so they can take those core strengths and use them in different ways that include more direct defense, but if someone want class damage shields Nightblades isn't the class for them.

mcianconeb16_ESO · April 2015

As much as ppl think its OP I think fear is fine where it is. Against a good DK thats a bit tanky, a NB would struggle to get damage off with his block up. I find fear is a major component of what makes a NB still high competitive. Without it though our burst is too easy to defend from.

If fear was to be removed or changed it would need to be replaced with something that knocks a blocker off balance or something or an ultimate that ignores block and damage shields. NBs need something to get through classes with durability.

vortexman11 · April 2015

mcianconeb16_ESO wrote: »

As much as ppl think its OP I think fear is fine where it is. Against a good DK thats a bit tanky, a NB would struggle to get damage off with his block up. I find fear is a major component of what makes a NB still high competitive. Without it though our burst is too easy to defend from.

If fear was to be removed or changed it would need to be replaced with something that knocks a blocker off balance or something or an ultimate that ignores block and damage shields. NBs need something to get through classes with durability.

Nothing wrong with fear as long as it breaks when you take a certain amount of damage

Armitas · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

You're correct. Fear does have some issues. We can tell you that we've identified the issue that was causing you to fall through the ground, or through the map entirely, and are testing the fix we've implemented. We hope to get this out in an incremental patch in the near future.

There is also an issue with gap closers. Sometimes when you use them and something happens to you before you finish the distance you get permastuck. Your feet wind up under the ground. You can dragonleap out or wait for a fear or knock back but that's it. It happens a lot.

Rust_in_Peace · April 2015

Dying inside a fear is a learn to play issue.

ZOS_GinaBruno · April 2015

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

You're correct. Fear does have some issues. We can tell you that we've identified the issue that was causing you to fall through the ground, or through the map entirely, and are testing the fix we've implemented. We hope to get this out in an incremental patch in the near future.

@ZOS_GinaBruno: Do you also look into why fear is very difficult to break nowadays and that fear, in the current state of the game (one-shot-wars) might have to be adjusted to not be more deciding than any ultimate?

A one second delay (which is pretty much standard atm playing in Cyrodiil) from break-free to any defensive maneuver is currently causing certain death, even when breaking immediately.

One potential change we're exploring is to remove the stun, which should help with the responsiveness. This would likely not happen until the next major update, though the falling-through-the-world issue will be fixed much, much sooner (potentially in the next week or two).

Mojomonkeyman · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

You're correct. Fear does have some issues. We can tell you that we've identified the issue that was causing you to fall through the ground, or through the map entirely, and are testing the fix we've implemented. We hope to get this out in an incremental patch in the near future.

@ZOS_GinaBruno: Do you also look into why fear is very difficult to break nowadays and that fear, in the current state of the game (one-shot-wars) might have to be adjusted to not be more deciding than any ultimate?

A one second delay (which is pretty much standard atm playing in Cyrodiil) from break-free to any defensive maneuver is currently causing certain death, even when breaking immediately.

One potential change we're exploring is to remove the stun, which should help with the responsiveness. This would likely not happen until the next major update, though the falling-through-the-world issue will be fixed much, much sooner (potentially in the next week or two).

Thank you very much for the swift response and heads up, much appreciated.

BR

tinythinker · April 2015

mcianconeb16_ESO wrote: »

As much as ppl think its OP I think fear is fine where it is. Against a good DK thats a bit tanky, a NB would struggle to get damage off with his block up. I find fear is a major component of what makes a NB still high competitive. Without it though our burst is too easy to defend from.

If fear was to be removed or changed it would need to be replaced with something that knocks a blocker off balance or something or an ultimate that ignores block and damage shields. NBs need something to get through classes with durability.

Absolutely agree, so long as a NB can get people to drop their block, prevent them from 100% permashielding, etc, even if it's just long enough for one massive burst attack, Fear (a.k.a. Aspect of Terror) is doing its job. And whatever happens to AoT, it might be interesting to have an active or passive ability altered to ignore a good bit of damage mitigation from block/shields.

Not a "good bit" as in "most" or "all", as I primarily run a DK, Templar, and Sorc and haven't used my NB for months, but something respectable that makes NBs an even better choice to counter (block-casting) shield stackers. I mean, AoT can help with the blocking (for now), but what if a skill people aren't happy with got something like ignoring... 15%? 25%? 35%?... of total damage shield mitigation?

Oh, say, maybe... an ability like Lotus Fan? Couple that with the weakish initial damage but harder hitting AoE DoT and accompanying snare (or even replace the snare with the higher end of figures proposed for reduction in shield mitigation - the 30-35% range), and that ability becomes much more interesting and useful for PvP. You could even justify the fact that more damage makes it through because of the teleport focusing on bypassing such effects/hitting before the (block/)shield (could be completed/) went into effect

This kind of change doesn't make shields/shield stacking useless against NBs, especially if we keep the snare and go with the lower end of ignoring the mitigation offered by damage shields (15-20%), but it does address two other issues that get lots of complaints and questions on the forums ("Why is Lotus Fan so weak?", "How do we counter shield stacking?"). And if AoT is going to be changed, might as well toss in some other NB changes as well.

Helluin · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

You're correct. Fear does have some issues. We can tell you that we've identified the issue that was causing you to fall through the ground, or through the map entirely, and are testing the fix we've implemented. We hope to get this out in an incremental patch in the near future.

@ZOS_GinaBruno: Do you also look into why fear is very difficult to break nowadays and that fear, in the current state of the game (one-shot-wars) might have to be adjusted to not be more deciding than any ultimate?

A one second delay (which is pretty much standard atm playing in Cyrodiil) from break-free to any defensive maneuver is currently causing certain death, even when breaking immediately.

One potential change we're exploring is to remove the stun, which should help with the responsiveness. This would likely not happen until the next major update, though the falling-through-the-world issue will be fixed much, much sooner (potentially in the next week or two).

Are you speaking about the stun from sneak attack or fear abilities?
The falling bug is great that it will be fixed, but I hope what written doesn't mean a radical changement in some other mechanics too.
Considering Master Assassin and Aspect of Terror, I hope NB won't lose one good passive and a good skill without compensations or other changements to be balanced.

DDuke · April 2015

Something I've learned during the 100+ days /played I have as stamina nightblade, is that fear is an utterly useless skill against a talented opponent.

Skilled opponent is one that does not have the reaction time of a potato, meaning your fear is broken in less than 1,3 seconds (the global cooldown it triggers for caster) leading to you basically wasting your magicka to drain your opponent's stamina, and there are better skills for draining stamina.

I've largely stopped using the "op fear" for these reasons.

Ezareth · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

You're correct. Fear does have some issues. We can tell you that we've identified the issue that was causing you to fall through the ground, or through the map entirely, and are testing the fix we've implemented. We hope to get this out in an incremental patch in the near future.

Let's hope it is a better fix than the Meteor Fall damage fix. I'd almost put money that Fear will now cause you to run in place.

PeggymoeXD · April 2015

I don't play a NB, I think the "sneaky one shot 'oh no they saw me' disappear and never come back" playstyle is super boring, and the reputation isn't one I'd personally enjoy having even if I was an absolute beast at it. It's more fulfilling to me to be able to kill 4 people solo in broad daylight. That's just me. But I will say, for this particular playstyle I don't really see the issue with fear, besides it's obvious bugs of course. There are people whining about glitches that need to be fixed, but then there are people whining about the skill and its purpose in general. I have CC break binded to a key and fear still takes forever to break sometimes with plenty of stamina, that would be my only issue. Otherwise, NB's are squishy af, and they need a way to make heavy hitting or tanky targets vulnerable. This is coming from a daily victim of fear.

And yeah, I want to stop falling through Nirn plz. thx.

ZOS_GinaBruno · April 2015

Just to give you all a quick update, the fix for Fear causing you to fall through the world isn't going to make the incremental patch on Monday (2.0.6), but we're hopeful for it making it in for 2.0.7.

Tankqull · April 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Fear, hmm where to begin.

Often times when I'm feared it takes like 2 seconds for cc break to actually work spamming it.

Often times I cannot tell I am even feared because I am rooted at the same time. The animation of being feared is not visual enough.

Often times I cannot cc break fear at all.

Often times I bolt escape and I am feared upon completion of bolt even though I am out of range of fear caster.

I have not been feared into the world yet but cc break with fear is majorly broken delayed and not instant like it should be.

best thing i observerd where my char bashing while beeing feared instead of breaking fear - had no controll about my char running staight towards a steep cliff, all skills greyed out und qbs locked, and all that blody char did was bashing...

Spangla · April 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

mcianconeb16_ESO wrote: »

As much as ppl think its OP I think fear is fine where it is. Against a good DK thats a bit tanky, a NB would struggle to get damage off with his block up. I find fear is a major component of what makes a NB still high competitive. Without it though our burst is too easy to defend from.

If fear was to be removed or changed it would need to be replaced with something that knocks a blocker off balance or something or an ultimate that ignores block and damage shields. NBs need something to get through classes with durability.

Nothing wrong with fear as long as it breaks when you take a certain amount of damage

Why no other cc does?

McDoogs · April 2015

I like how the NBs come out of the woodwork to try to convince people that having the only instant, unmitigateable (and spammable, and sometimes unbreakable) hard CC that gives no CC immunity unless broken in the game is not a wee bit unbalancing. Nearly every magicka NB in cyrodiil is spamming fear nonstop. These are the same people who complain about sorceror's being able to escape I think, as if a sorceror running away is even close to as unbalanced as the fear + burst i win button a well built NB has right now.

Lava_Croft · April 2015

Well I spun to the left, I spun to the right
And I spun to the left again
"Fear me! Fear me! Fear me!"
But no one did cause they were dead

Spangla · April 2015

McDoogs wrote: »

I like how the NBs come out of the woodwork to try to convince people that having the only instant, unmitigateable (and spammable, and sometimes unbreakable) hard CC that gives no CC immunity unless broken in the game is not a wee bit unbalancing. Nearly every magicka NB in cyrodiil is spamming fear nonstop. These are the same people who complain about sorceror's being able to escape I think, as if a sorceror running away is even close to as unbalanced as the fear + burst i win button a well built NB has right now.

Want to trade fear for: Hardened ward/reflective scales or blazing shield please