The Justice System seems pretty sound. I can't see what the hold up would be for the PvP portion.

TheBull · January 2015

I mean about the only thing I see atm as a potential problem is guards camping the outlaw hideout entrance. If ZOS puts a couple unkillable outlaw guards at the entrance to the hideout, problem solved. I only messed around with it for about an hour, but I don't see many if any holes.

Have you guys found any potential issues?

Possible Issues-

starkerealm wrote: »

Guards aggro on heals. Coordinated enforcers trying to heal in combat would run a real risk of accidentally becoming criminals themselves.

Also, rezing players seems to be another thing that triggers guard aggro, and a bounty. Again, no way that could go horribly wrong.

There might be other issues, depending on how players are flagged, ganking enforcers might actually be possible.

Amsel_McKay · January 2015

If they add open world PvP they will lose a ton of people and gain a different group...

dharbert · January 2015

It would be non-stop griefing. Thankfully, they are leaving it out for now.

TheBull · January 2015

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. You will only be a target if you commit a crime. Guards are unkillable and they hit like tanks and chase you forever as it is.

What potential exploit do you see for griefing?

Amsel_McKay · January 2015

That is not PVP the is PVE....

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2015

TheBull wrote: »

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. You will only be a target if you commit a crime. Guards are unkillable and they hit like tanks and chase you forever as it is.

What potential exploit do you see for griefing?

If you dont see it. Its not likely that anyone explaining it will open your eyes.

Maybe if they created a system to tally your criminal activity. Pop Fugitive enough times and you find yourself on a Bounty Hunters hitlist. Once the Bounty Hunter gets you/you pay off your bounty it resets.

TheBull · January 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. You will only be a target if you commit a crime. Guards are unkillable and they hit like tanks and chase you forever as it is.

What potential exploit do you see for griefing?

If you dont see it. Its not likely that anyone explaining it will open your eyes.

Maybe if they created a system to tally your criminal activity. Pop Fugitive enough times and you find yourself on a Bounty Hunters hitlist. Once the Bounty Hunter gets you/you pay off your bounty it resets.

That's not how the pvp portion of the justice system is supposed to work. As far as we know player guards will only be able to arrest criminals. I still don't see your point. It's not full out world pvp. Players criminals will not be able randomly kill other players. Is that what you thought?

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2015

TheBull wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. You will only be a target if you commit a crime. Guards are unkillable and they hit like tanks and chase you forever as it is.

What potential exploit do you see for griefing?

If you dont see it. Its not likely that anyone explaining it will open your eyes.

Maybe if they created a system to tally your criminal activity. Pop Fugitive enough times and you find yourself on a Bounty Hunters hitlist. Once the Bounty Hunter gets you/you pay off your bounty it resets.

That's not how the pvp portion of the justice system is supposed to work. As far as we know player guards will only be able to arrest criminals. I still don't see your point. It's not full out world pvp. Players criminals will not be able randomly kill other players. Is that what you thought?

No.

TheBull · January 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. You will only be a target if you commit a crime. Guards are unkillable and they hit like tanks and chase you forever as it is.

What potential exploit do you see for griefing?

If you dont see it. Its not likely that anyone explaining it will open your eyes.

Maybe if they created a system to tally your criminal activity. Pop Fugitive enough times and you find yourself on a Bounty Hunters hitlist. Once the Bounty Hunter gets you/you pay off your bounty it resets.

That's not how the pvp portion of the justice system is supposed to work. As far as we know player guards will only be able to arrest criminals. I still don't see your point. It's not full out world pvp. Players criminals will not be able randomly kill other players. Is that what you thought?

No.

Well what are you talking about. Are you saying that you would like more opportunity to commit crime or a higher heat threshold? If so I don't see why that couldn't be a topic for discussion.

Amsel_McKay · January 2015

TheBull wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. You will only be a target if you commit a crime. Guards are unkillable and they hit like tanks and chase you forever as it is.

What potential exploit do you see for griefing?

If you dont see it. Its not likely that anyone explaining it will open your eyes.

Maybe if they created a system to tally your criminal activity. Pop Fugitive enough times and you find yourself on a Bounty Hunters hitlist. Once the Bounty Hunter gets you/you pay off your bounty it resets.

That's not how the pvp portion of the justice system is supposed to work. As far as we know player guards will only be able to arrest criminals. I still don't see your point. It's not full out world pvp. Players criminals will not be able randomly kill other players. Is that what you thought?

"Player Guards" <=== Oh god no! That would be so bad...

TheBull · January 2015

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. You will only be a target if you commit a crime. Guards are unkillable and they hit like tanks and chase you forever as it is.

What potential exploit do you see for griefing?

If you dont see it. Its not likely that anyone explaining it will open your eyes.

Maybe if they created a system to tally your criminal activity. Pop Fugitive enough times and you find yourself on a Bounty Hunters hitlist. Once the Bounty Hunter gets you/you pay off your bounty it resets.

That's not how the pvp portion of the justice system is supposed to work. As far as we know player guards will only be able to arrest criminals. I still don't see your point. It's not full out world pvp. Players criminals will not be able randomly kill other players. Is that what you thought?

"Player Guards" <=== Oh god no! That would be so bad...

That's what they announced. Why would it be bad? Guards are already unkillable, hit like tanks and chase you forever.

Let's talk guys... No one like a griefer. This thread is to find potential loop holes/exploits. Do you have any you can think of?

TheBull · January 2015

No exploits/loopholes anyone can think of so far from what they've seen?

AngryNord · January 2015

Yup the kids will have immense fun for about five minutes running around with their OP FoTM builds and kill everyone killable in town, and then complain they're bored and there's nothing to do... Providing this makes it to live of course, which I can't for the life of me see it do...

Roechacca · January 2015

There are issues still with the Justice system . The guards are almost unkillable . That needs to be fixed . The guards have a lot of roots and stuns . Cloak is still broken on nightblade . As much as I would love to see player participation in the guard system , there's a lot more testing to do first . Has anyone been able to test helping the guards ? If you try to heal you may just wind up healing the fugitive and get Heat on your self ! But we won't know unless ZOS gives us something to test first .

ItsGlaive · January 2015

The guards are meant to be unkillable. As for the PVP element, I don't see why it's such a big deal. If you steal or murder, you deserve to have justice exacted upon you. It's a fun, lore appropriate way to introduce a PVP element to the game for those who choose to opt in to being a criminal or guard.

starkerealm · January 2015

TheBull wrote: »

No exploits/loopholes anyone can think of so far from what they've seen?

Hilariously enough. Guards aggro on heals. Coordinated enforcers trying to heal in combat would run a real risk of accidentally becoming criminals themselves.

Also, rezing players seems to be another thing that triggers guard aggro, and a bounty. Again, no way that could go horribly wrong.

There might be other issues, depending on how players are flagged, ganking enforcers might actually be possible.

Lionxoft · January 2015

I personally hope that the player guards are implemented. Beating the guard AI is already too easy.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · January 2015

TheBull wrote: »

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. You will only be a target if you commit a crime. Guards are unkillable and they hit like tanks and chase you forever as it is.

What potential exploit do you see for griefing?

NPC decimation, a la 'Crossroads'.

I frankly don't trust ZOS to be able to predict griefer behaviour and we'll end up with required NPCs being slaughtered by lolworldPVPers.

It doesn't have be that PLAYERS can be unwantedly be involved in PVP to be griefed.

Smaxx · January 2015

They're probably collecting data for now, e.g. where do people steal, how do they try to escape, which routes do they take, etc.

If you add PvP, you'll want to make sure there are options for the fleeing players as well. E.g. if there's some place with only one escape route, people would just camp there and try to get others to commit crimes.

TheBull · January 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

No exploits/loopholes anyone can think of so far from what they've seen?

Hilariously enough. Guards aggro on heals. Coordinated enforcers trying to heal in combat would run a real risk of accidentally becoming criminals themselves.

Also, rezing players seems to be another thing that triggers guard aggro, and a bounty. Again, no way that could go horribly wrong.

There might be other issues, depending on how players are flagged, ganking enforcers might actually be possible.

Now we are getting somewhere. You saying that enforcers run the risk of unintentionally becoming criminals do heals and possibly resurrections.

TheBull · January 2015

Smaxx wrote: »

They're probably collecting data for now, e.g. where do people steal, how do they try to escape, which routes do they take, etc.

If you add PvP, you'll want to make sure there are options for the fleeing players as well. E.g. if there's some place with only one escape route, people would just camp there and try to get others to commit crimes.

I was looking at this too. I was only in Glenubra (DC's first main city) , There seem to be 2 or 3 entrances/exits which of course the city gave multiple routes to get to that point.

Alphashado · January 2015

I don't see a problem with it. The way it sounded, you were only going to get flagged for PvP attack if you get your bounty really high by committing murder, attacking guards, etc. Plus you can pay your bounty off at anytime in order to keep it from flagging you. So you would have to try really hard to get flagged for PvP unless you wanted to be flagged. Not really any way to grief someone with that system unless you are getting attacked and you kite a player close enough to the guards so that their AoE dmg hits a guard and flags them. This could be an issue of course. But if that person gets close to the guards they are going to kill him anyways.

And the guards don't mess around. I saw a group of 5 VR14 players trying to kill a guard in Craglorn, and he kicked their butts. They are basically a raid boss.

Sallington · January 2015

Carebears.

RSram · January 2015

Anyone get away with pick pocketing yet?

Celless · January 2015

I don't see the Enforcer accidentally healing a criminal problem.

My understanding is that we will have to wear the Enforcer tabard (or some similar death warrant). Perhaps I'm living in dream land, but I'm imagining that are beneficial actions no longer benefit folks who reach criminal status.

Much the way that an alliance member cannot heal an opposing alliance member... unless I too am mistaken on that and have been healing the enemy *dramatic prairie dog eye*

Kallipsoe · January 2015

TheBull wrote: »

I mean about the only thing I see atm as a potential problem is guards camping the outlaw hideout entrance. If ZOS puts a couple unkillable outlaw guards at the entrance to the hideout, problem solved.

Instead of adding outlaw guards I would like to see an ability added in the new skill line to assist with this. "Disguise" this power would have a small cast time that would make the player look like a peasant. The player would have a reduced speed "walking speed" a little slower than stealth that is not modified by any stealth skills. The disguise would decrease the detection range of NPC guards and make the player none recognizable to player enforcers.

Players would have to make the decision to put on their disguise outside of town and do the long slow boring walk to the enclave or try to get as close as possible attempting to avoid NPC guards and player enforcers before donning their disguise in order to by-pass campers.

If the player is identified by NPC guards or player enforcers they will have a de-buff that prevents them from applying their disguise for X amount of time.

Sprinting, running or using any ability drops the disguise.

Celless · January 2015

Kallipsoe wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I mean about the only thing I see atm as a potential problem is guards camping the outlaw hideout entrance. If ZOS puts a couple unkillable outlaw guards at the entrance to the hideout, problem solved.

Instead of adding outlaw guards I would like to see an ability added in the new skill line to assist with this. "Disguise" this power would have a small cast time that would make the player look like a peasant. The player would have a reduced speed "walking speed" a little slower than stealth that is not modified by any stealth skills. The disguise would decrease the detection range of NPC guards and make the player none recognizable to player enforcers.

Players would have to make the decision to put on their disguise outside of town and do the long slow boring walk to the enclave or try to get as close as possible attempting to avoid NPC guards and player enforcers before donning their disguise in order to by-pass campers.

If the player is identified by NPC guards or player enforcers they will have a de-buff that prevents them from applying their disguise for X amount of time.

Sprinting, running or using any ability drops the disguise.

I like it.

If an enforcer misjudges a peasant for a disguise and attacks xyr, they may become the criminal they chose to hunt.

Perhaps other criminals will not be able to target that player in disguise and/or see through the disguise - which could pose the "opposing alliance stealth detection" type of issues.

cravnbeer · January 2015

I hope they don't add the pvp portion. I would rather see other systems and new zones take up developer time.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · January 2015

Sallington wrote: »

Carebears.

LOLworldPVPers

See, I too can post a fatuous reply that doesn't help progress the discussion.

Kallipsoe · January 2015

Celless wrote: »

I like it.

If an enforcer misjudges a peasant for a disguise and attacks xyr, they may become the criminal they chose to hunt.

Perhaps other criminals will not be able to target that player in disguise and/or see through the disguise - which could pose the "opposing alliance stealth detection" type of issues.

I simply envision a red pulsating bounty emblem over players heads that are market "kill on sight" and they will have that red glow around their body just like an attack-able enemy NPC in the world. Putting on their disguise would simply make this go away unless they are discovered by a NPC guard. Player enforcers would not be able to see through a player disguise.

Azarul · January 2015

I was so looking to re-subbing till I saw the PvP portion was not going to be added in the beginning. I don't see the problem for PvEer's. Its basically a setup like WoW, dont want to PvP, dont flag yourself (ie: steal, murder, etc).