PVP Discussion with Brian Wheeler During Friday's ESO Live Twitch Stream

LonePirate · September 2014

In case anyone here was unaware, Lead PVP Designer Brian Wheeler will be joining Friday's ESO Live show on Twitch. The show begins at 4:00 PM EDT.

You can find more details here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/133541/official-discussion-thread-for-watch-the-next-eso-live-on-9-26#latest

Here is a link to the ESO Twitch channel:

Braidas · September 2014

Good god, they actually thought about the PvP'ers??? must be a mistake

Draxys · September 2014

here's hoping they skip the usual road ahead fluff and talk about the improvements needed right freaking now

Xsorus · September 2014

If i don't hear anything about AoE Caps and Forward Camps i'm going to be extremely disappointed.

Both of those things right now are screwing this game over

Crowzer · September 2014

So:
- Stam ?
- 360 blocking ?
- camps ?
- Lags ?
- Crashs ?
- Nightblade ?

Garion · September 2014

This should be interesting.

tengri · September 2014

And here I was suspecting PvP developers were an urban legend.
But he's brave, have to give him that for sure.
Showing face after the utterly failure PvP has become... that man's got some stones.

AreoHotah · September 2014

Ooooh this oughta be "good".

synnerman · September 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

If i don't hear anything about AoE Caps and Forward Camps i'm going to be extremely disappointed.

Both of those things right now are screwing this game over

Same here , I want some answers on the AoE/blob pulse rubbish and what they are going to do about it in PvP. Six weeks on since Brian Wheeler said the combat team were looking at it.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs · September 2014

poor guy

Poxheart · September 2014

I predict the livestream will be an AOE BBQ.

Braidas · September 2014

watch the stream crash once wheeler starts talking ahaha

c0rp · September 2014

If I dont hear any positive comments concerning the addressing of AoE caps and forward camps leading to blobbing and major gameplay issues I will officially give up on the pvp in this game. Which means $15 a month will start to seem like an unecessary expense.

Oldtimer209 · September 2014

PvP had a LEAD designer? I thought it just a group of junior designers who were using us to troubleshoot their code for the console.....

decado0024_ESO · September 2014

This is their last chance. If we don't get some definitive answers about real issues with pvp I cancelling my subscription.

Braidas · September 2014

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The team is working hard on Imperial City and making sure it's as enjoyable as a PVP and PVE zone. In the meantime, we do keep an eye on Cyrodiil and the issues with the Alliance war as a whole and make adjustments as soon as we can get them in there. Recently the postern doors and server roll-back/save issues were resolved and now the team has a few other things we're adding that I can finally mention

Oil Pots will be getting a deadzone added to them so the oil has to travel atleast 6 meters before arming. This should help with the PBAE use of Oil pots. I can't promise exactly when this is going in as we need more testing on it, but that's the initial update for Oil pots.

As far as the AE cap damage is concerned, the Combat team has been looking at options for handling it and will post something when they are comfortable with doing so.

Forward Camps are going to get an Alliance Rank requirement to purchase added to them for helping limit the amount of self alliance "trolling". Short of increasing the price to a very high amount, we've read many other suggestions on the boards here and are taking this as a first step.

A teleport border around Cyrodiil play-space is being put into the game to also help with putting forward camps in "out of bounds" areas.

We continue to monitor population in both the EU and the US for Campaigns and will adjust them as necessary.

it's not looking good guys...

darkdruidssb14_ESO · September 2014

Crap, starts right when I will be traveling. Does the stream go to past recordings so it can be viewed later? I don't see the last live stream in their history.

Agrippa_Invisus · September 2014

Wow.

It's going to be even harder to defend keeps against the giant zergballs now? No more oiling the flags, the archers, or even on step landings?

FFS.

How the HELL am I supposed to hold the back flag of a keep when AD or DC put 30+ players on it spamming heals? I can meatbag them from the nave and then maybe fire ballista them from the opposite stairwell and one purge and it's all gone. The Apse of an inner circle keep will be almost indefensible against a large group.

The Nave will still have some oil defense, but if there's enough and they clear the top of the keep, then GG, keep's already gone.

EDIT:

To add, the outer wall's harder to defend now too. No more oil cubby ambushes or top tower defenses. The places you can reasonably put oil in an inner circle keep are --

Over the main gate.
Over the breaches.
Down a stairwell in a turret.
Over the front door of the inner keep.
Over the nave from the sides and archer pit.
Over the inner postern breaches until just beyond the mid stairs landing.

There will be almost no way, that I can think of, to get oil on that back flag anymore.

ZOS_GinaBruno · September 2014

To be clear, the PvP team covers Cyrodiil, campaigns, and the systems that govern how those function - not the player-to-player combat, classes, and mechanics.

Also, you can view the first show here, and we do plan to archive today's show as well.

Agrippa_Invisus · September 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, the PvP team covers Cyrodiil, campaigns, and the systems that govern how those function - not necessarily the player-to-player combat, classes, and mechanics.

Also, you can view the first show here, and we do plan to archive today's show as well.

And does it poorly. These last few days in Thorn + the awfulness of these announcements makes me question the competence of your team.

darkdruidssb14_ESO · September 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Wow.

It's going to be even harder to defend keeps against the giant zergballs now? No more oiling the flags, the archers, or even on step landings?

FFS.

How the HELL am I supposed to hold the back flag of a keep when AD or DC put 30+ players on it spamming heals? I can meatbag them from the nave and then maybe fire ballista them from the opposite stairwell and one purge and it's all gone. The Apse of an inner circle keep will be almost indefensible against a large group.

The Nave will still have some oil defense, but if there's enough and they clear the top of the keep, then GG, keep's already gone.

Place the oil 6 meters away from the flag. You'll still be able to use it for flag defense, but you will have to use it differently and with greater risk.

The dead zone just prevents you from standing directly on a flag and covering the whole cap zone and prevents people from hiding in Oil Pots since enemies will be able to stand near you without taking any damage.

My gripe would be if they don't update the telegraph for oil to show the "dead zone" area... at least the person using the oil should know where the dead zone is for strategic placement.

Agrippa_Invisus · September 2014

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Wow.

It's going to be even harder to defend keeps against the giant zergballs now? No more oiling the flags, the archers, or even on step landings?

FFS.

How the HELL am I supposed to hold the back flag of a keep when AD or DC put 30+ players on it spamming heals? I can meatbag them from the nave and then maybe fire ballista them from the opposite stairwell and one purge and it's all gone. The Apse of an inner circle keep will be almost indefensible against a large group.

The Nave will still have some oil defense, but if there's enough and they clear the top of the keep, then GG, keep's already gone.

Place the oil 6 meters away from the flag. You'll still be able to use it for flag defense, but you will have to use it differently and with greater risk.

The dead zone just prevents you from standing directly on a flag and covering the whole cap zone and prevents people from hiding in Oil Pots since enemies will be able to stand near you without taking any damage.

My gripe would be if they don't update the telegraph for oil to show the "dead zone" area... at least the person using the oil should know where the dead zone is for strategic placement.

Check my edit.

There is no way to reasonably defend the back/Apse flag of an inner circle keep with these changes against a zergball. If DC or AD (who do it fairly regularly) park 2 raid groups on that back flag, it's gone.

If they clear the top of the keep, the keeps is essentially lost as you cannot use oil in the Nave (front door) flag area at that point.

Oil doesn't 'travel' like a ballista bolt does. It goes straight down. That six meter dead zone means if the oil is on the floor, it does zero damage. It has to be perched somewhere.

Davadin · September 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, the PvP team covers Cyrodiil, campaigns, and the systems that govern how those function - not the player-to-player combat, classes, and mechanics.

Also, you can view the first show here, and we do plan to archive today's show as well.

Yeah but doesn't mean @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ can't at least mention "hey, we're working on it. but not saying anything yet." instead of fully ignoring us. Yes?

That being said, the quote above looks good. People are flipping out, yes, as usual, but glad to know ZOS taking some steps to rectify the issue. Whatever it may be.

PS: @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ where would oil pot discussion goes? it's game mechanic but it's not like we can use it in PvE, no?

ZOS_BrianWheeler · September 2014

Oil pot mechanics the PVP team covers and can be commented on in the Alliance War section of the forums or in this thread if you want.

Davadin · September 2014

Braidas wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The team is working hard on Imperial City and making sure it's as enjoyable as a PVP and PVE zone. In the meantime, we do keep an eye on Cyrodiil and the issues with the Alliance war as a whole and make adjustments as soon as we can get them in there. Recently the postern doors and server roll-back/save issues were resolved and now the team has a few other things we're adding that I can finally mention

Oil Pots will be getting a deadzone added to them so the oil has to travel atleast 6 meters before arming. This should help with the PBAE use of Oil pots. I can't promise exactly when this is going in as we need more testing on it, but that's the initial update for Oil pots.

As far as the AE cap damage is concerned, the Combat team has been looking at options for handling it and will post something when they are comfortable with doing so.

Forward Camps are going to get an Alliance Rank requirement to purchase added to them for helping limit the amount of self alliance "trolling". Short of increasing the price to a very high amount, we've read many other suggestions on the boards here and are taking this as a first step.

A teleport border around Cyrodiil play-space is being put into the game to also help with putting forward camps in "out of bounds" areas.

We continue to monitor population in both the EU and the US for Campaigns and will adjust them as necessary.

it's not looking good guys...

Actually it looks pretty decent. It's a first step. You really expect them to address all of the problems after ignoring PvP for so long? "Surprise! We actually have all the fixes and been working on them at the background for months now!"

LOL

Oil pots is too much. A nerf is good.
AE cap working on options. Will let know soon. Good. (again, better than ignoring)
FC getting requirements. Less trolling. And it's only first step. Good.
Teleport border. Also good. Interesting at least.

Actually it's looking good.

But seriously, at the end of the day, all I want is how can we reduce the Impulse-spamming zerg ball. It's not fun, it's frustrating and ruining PvP for a lot of people. Fix that and all other problems will look insignificant.

Agrippa_Invisus · September 2014

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Oil pot mechanics the PVP team covers and can be commented on in the Alliance War section of the forums or in this thread if you want.

Brian,

I think the oil pot mechanics changes need to be reconsidered, for the points I've already mentioned.

The zergballing that is chewing up your server performance is only encouraged more by the inability to break up large groups of players in tight confines with the use of oils and other siege equipment.

Inner circle keeps become much tougher to defend against a force with superior numbers when a smaller force should, reasonably, be using a fortification as a force multiplier.

Right now dropping 20-30 players on a flag, spamming heals, and just waiting for a keep to flip are all that's being done. With AE caps in place, they have herd immunity essentially to damage.

How do you stop a mathematically superior foe from taking whatever they want?

Bramir · September 2014

LOL...so if the PvP team doesn't cover player to player combat...who does? Isn't that exactly what a PvP team is supposed to do? If the PvE devs are in charge of PvP class/skill balance, that actually explains why a lot of the really stupid stuff just isn't getting addressed.

As much as I love many things about this game, I am going to have to reconsider my sub, since PvP is my endgame and it is like a car with three wheels with a brick on the gas pedal and a cliff a couple miles ahead.

Davadin · September 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Oil pot mechanics the PVP team covers and can be commented on in the Alliance War section of the forums or in this thread if you want.

Brian,

I think the oil pot mechanics changes need to be reconsidered, for the points I've already mentioned.

The zergballing that is chewing up your server performance is only encouraged more by the inability to break up large groups of players in tight confines with the use of oils and other siege equipment.

Inner circle keeps become much tougher to defend against a force with superior numbers when a smaller force should, reasonably, be using a fortification as a force multiplier.

Right now dropping 20-30 players on a flag, spamming heals, and just waiting for a keep to flip are all that's being done. With AE caps in place, they have herd immunity essentially to damage.

How do you stop a mathematically superior foe from taking whatever they want?

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ I agree with Agri here. Oil pot changes I see that it will fix one issue (misusing for camping/ganking/etc.), but it WILL severely nerf our ability to stop ZERG balls (which is, in my honest opinion, the BIGGER/BIGGEST issue in PvP).

So if oil pot changes comes, it NEEDS to come with other changes that can balance out the changes, and ultimately reduce the zerg ball.

Yes, AE cap is one option.

Volcanic Rune is a skill available to all, and without AE cap, can single-handedly destroy a zerg ball if they don't look at where they step.

DK's Talon, I admit, would work too (would be lovely) but since it damages as well, it may be overpowered. Just like Burning Standard.

There are MANY options, but please, make sure your team is aware of the zerg ball issue.... on top of everything else you mentioned in your post (or will mention in the stream this afternoon)

Thank you,

Bramir wrote: »

LOL...so if the PvP team doesn't cover player to player combat...who does? Isn't that exactly what a PvP team is supposed to do? If the PvE devs are in charge of PvP class/skill balance, that actually explains why a lot of the really stupid stuff just isn't getting addressed.

There's a Combat Team that will post comments "soon". Not PvE team.

Kypho · September 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, the PvP team covers Cyrodiil, campaigns, and the systems that govern how those function - not the player-to-player combat, classes, and mechanics.

Also, you can view the first show here, and we do plan to archive today's show as well.

Dohh is see only this on the video: AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE AoE x 1000

Lava_Croft · September 2014

All I want is an experience that is free of crashes and unplayable lag.

DDuke · September 2014

Putting oil pots down everywhere isn't a good solution for zergballs, and how does placing one down on the ground make any sense?...

Removing AE caps would be a really good solution however. One or two well-timed meteors could destroy zergs if they were too stacked.

If they were to remove AE caps before changing how oil works, that would create a whole another problem...