Mod discussion

claudekennilol

@Pawkette‌

I think you've had a bigger influence than you're giving yourself credit for. While I don't know the circumstances of your withdrawal, I can see the impact you've had simply by typing 'eso lootdrop' into google.

Just some of the first few links.

• http://elderscrollsonlineguide.com/best-eso-add-ons (url pretty much explains it)
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsK1T1BZ9ek - german vid entitled 'how to install addons' with your addon listed, nearly 9k views.
• http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/which-add-ons-to-use-day-one/ - lootdrop is mentioned about 5x on the first page of this 130 post topic on one of the most active TES boards there is
• http://www.twitch.tv/forcestrategygaming/b/508051605 - some random twitch gamer that has ~25k followers (and currently 2400 people watching) has your addon as the sole addon he's using listed.

So I guarantee there are those that are thankful for your mod (and that's just this one, I don't even know what else you've worked on). While I know your addon has since been reuploaded to ESOUI with community permissions, I for one know the work you put into it and appreciate it.

BlackTinuviel

I honestly am thankful. We had a difference in view on some part of lootdrop, but that doesn't mean I really don't appreciate the addon! I appreciate all the work done, on all your addons, so far.

Kaynlor

I love your Pawsickles! Don't let them take you down. you do great work.

Wreaken

While I don't know the full reason why Pawk has withdrawn, this is the exact scenario that turns me off add-ons. Finding something that you really enjoy, but it becomes out of date.....and therefor, not compatible with the client.

If someone doesn't pick up his work and remake it while giving him credit OR if someone doesn't make a new add-on like this, that feature is gone and even if someone does pick it up, it may never be as good or smooth to use etc.

Add-ons while they have pros, I think the cons out weigh them in the end.

Pawkette

Thank you all, but I really just don't need the extra stress in my life right now. I'll still make things for myself, which is the original reason I started making addons. If you guys wanna use them, go for it. I just don't want to deal with the users anymore.

PS. I'm a girl.

Seerah

Wow @talon_vib14_ESO‌ ... Really? /smh

Seerah

You obviously didn't get the fact that what you said was not only inappropriate, but downright rude. I want to call you names, but I won't because I'll follow the site rules and take the high road, rather than stoop to your level.

Wykkyd

talon_vib14_ESO wrote: »

Pawkette wrote: »

PS. I'm a girl.

Yeah that wasn't obvious. Loving all this attention?

Does it make you feel special to belittle others?

Lichbane

Pawkette. I've been working for over 30 years in the IT industry, so my words are backed up with a lot of practical experience:

For what it's worth you're always going to deal with people who disagree with the direction your work takes. Some are really bad at expressing that disagreement. Some will try to bully you into submission. But be confident in what you do. For every one obnoxious person, you've got another twenty who really appreciate your work. I've been using lootdrop since day one. I love it. It's simple. It's elegant. And you've done an excellent job.

Ziz

Pawkette's awesome.

Nuff said.

Nights_Watch

All my friends saw the way she was dealing with users' requests, and some comments were...short. And it wasn't just in response to requests. One guy took the time to comment on a bug issue, and she said something to the effect of 'if you would have seen all the other error reports on this..." It was apparent she was opinionated and wanted things her way or the highway. Yes, some users were outright rude back to her. But the bottom line is she took a stance on a feature of at least one mod (lootdrop) that was absolutely unwavering, and it was a feature that many users wanted. In all my years of modding, using mods, and so forth in many games, I've never seen a mod creator do this.

Why not allow the USER the ability to make the choice to make a window movable? It's a video game! We're not talking how to lay a house foundation or something actually important. And I don't think the issue is how anyone appreciates her work - I'm sure we all do. It's how she presented her mod in a 'take or leave it' attitude and how she dealt with user requests. How hard would it be to put a check box to make something movable or not? Or upload more than one version? And if users made wanted a window movable why in the world would she care? Does it really matter if something is in one corner or another, or a few pixels away? Seriously.

I for one appreciate her work, but at the same time I'm glad she's given the reigns over to someone else. Hopefully that person will be able to be more open to user requests and not so flippant with those who try to help.

Kaynlor

Nights_Watch wrote: »

...
Does it really matter if something is in one corner or another, or a few pixels away? Seriously.
...

Well, as it is her creation, and it doesn't "really matter if something is in one corner or another, or a few pixels away", why are you so upset? Modders/Add-on creators are not here to create for your whims, they create for themselves first and share their work with the rest of us.

claudekennilol

Nights_Watch wrote: »

How hard would it be to put a check box to make something movable or not?

Lol, I said almost this exact same thing on this topic's twin on the Reddit forum--in reference to people not knowing about programming. You do realize you can't just put a check box on the screen and then it magically just does what you want it to, right?

BlackTinuviel

claudekennilol wrote: »

Nights_Watch wrote: »

How hard would it be to put a check box to make something movable or not?

Lol, I said almost this exact same thing on this topic's twin on the Reddit forum--in reference to people not knowing about programming. You do realize you can't just put a check box on the screen and then it magically just does what you want it to, right?

Being a professional developer, and an addon developer, you're right. It's not just as easy as typing a few lines and pressing 'ok'. You need to think about how a feature fits into your code, how to architect your code structure, how this will impact current and future features, how to test it, what you need to regression test that this feature may impact, and more! This is on top of the actual code implementation!

Adding a simple feature takes time and dedication. In addons, nobody is getting paid for it, and most people (myself included) have normal 9-5 jobs during the day. We're programming because we like it, we're programming for the fun. The last thing we need is pushy people complaining they don't have something they want taking away that enjoyment.

That being said, I generally tend to take a graceful approach to things. If someone requests a feature, I take it into consideration. In many aspects, they often overlap with what I want to do with the addon anyways. Sometimes, I can't implement feature because either the API doesn't allow it, it would require a massive code re-write to fit in, there is already a way to do what they want to accomplish, or there is a better solution to the problem. In these cases I don't brush off people though and just say it'll never happen, I try to explain the reasoning completely.

Remember, as developers we don't want to get 'add this button here' requests. Those are useless, as you'll just keep adding way too many things only 2 people use, which in the end makes the User Experience cluttered and overwhelming. People have to remember that a lot of the time they just want to solve their problem, while not trying to achieve an overall vision of the product. What we want is the reason why you want a feature. With this, we work with the community to find a solution that makes everything the best it can be.

Voodoo

talon_vib14_ESO wrote: »

Pawkette wrote: »

PS. I'm a girl.

Yeah that wasn't obvious. Loving all this attention?

exactly fools like you that she no doubt didnt want to deal with anymore.

talon_vib14_ESO

From what I can tell she has created a simple yet extremely useful mod that is being used by thousands. That is great, but then suddenly she decides to take it down because she feels unappreciated. People still don't understand how big of a public forum the internet is and many are ill equipped to handle the attention once they finally get it. This isn't an insult to her it's simply a reality. Tech support forums or people contacting her for enhancements are going to be mainly negative because those are the few that are having issues or want things changed. The majority will not express their opinion on the mod because they are busy just playing the game and using the mod without issue.

Why not leave the mod up and simply cease to support it? She had to have known that taking the mod down completely would only bring her more negative attention...

She will need to learn to ignore the negative and only reply to the positive.

Voodoo

talon_vib14_ESO wrote: »

Wykkyd wrote: »

Does it make you feel special to belittle others?

Does it make you feel special to white knight on the internet?

Seerah wrote: »

You obviously didn't get the fact that what you said was not only inappropriate, but downright rude.

Not only did I get it, that was it's intent. Obvious seems to be a running theme here Captain.

Voodoo wrote: »

talon_vib14_ESO wrote: »

Pawkette wrote: »

PS. I'm a girl.

Yeah that wasn't obvious. Loving all this attention?

exactly fools like you that she no doubt didnt want to deal with anymore.

Then why is she still here? If you ask me she is being the fool. She has stated that she doesn't need the stress and yet continues to feed the troll.

Speaking of trolls. She is here because someone made a thread with her name on if duffus! You are here trolling and insulting someone that has actually made something constructive ...here you are whinning and complaining..that is what you are! We all see that!

...Go troll somewhere else. I admit you are good for a laugh!

Seerah

@talon_vib14_ESO‌ She didn't pull it because she didn't feel appreciated. She pulled it because she was getting hounded, stalked in-game, harassed and verbally abused. By people like you.

I was being generous when I said "obviously". Maybe there's a part of me that was hoping that you really were clueless and perhaps are a decent person. But... nope.

talon_vib14_ESO

Seerah wrote: »

Maybe there's a part of me that was hoping that you really were clueless and perhaps are a decent person. But... nope.

So based off a couple post on a forum you've concluded that I am not a decent person? Hmm that's too bad.

Voodoo wrote: »

here you are whinning and complaining

No denying my first post was a troll. My second post was an elaboration on why I trolled and laid out my opinion. Not sure where I was whinning or complaining. She can do what she wants, I don't even use her mod. I was just looking into it based on a friends recommendation and saw all the drama here and on redit. Ultimately this is not worth getting worked up over. That being said this is the last post I will be putting on this thread and/or on this topic. Unlike @Pawkette I really am done Rejoice the troll is gone!

Carde

Ziz wrote: »

Pawkette's awesome.

Nuff said.

People like her and Wykkyd who produce these addons are working to improve this game for all of us, and their efforts are mostly appreciated I would hope.

Khazaad

claudekennilol wrote: »

Nights_Watch wrote: »

How hard would it be to put a check box to make something movable or not?

Lol, I said almost this exact same thing on this topic's twin on the Reddit forum--in reference to people not knowing about programming. You do realize you can't just put a check box on the screen and then it magically just does what you want it to, right?

If there's one thing I absolutely KNOW about programming, it's that I know absolutely nothing about programming.

This deep sense of awareness is what allows me to contain my ignorance inside my brainspace where it's unable to infect the public.

That's just programming though. I always know more than anyone about everything else though.