How ZOS can get lots of new players!

Faugaun

Be the first major mmo to give exp for RPing

Gidorick

How? Offer suggestions not just abstract ideas.

Sylvyr

Make grand "promises"?

Koloki

In a way they do, crafting armor, cooking, gathering ingredients can all be seen as a form of RP, exploring and reading books as well.
Now if you mean something more like talking in character in the chat, dressing in character, holding events etc i don't see how it can be done without strong policing by the mods or a dedicated RP server.

Gidorick

Koloki wrote: »

Now if you mean something more like talking in character in the chat, dressing in character, holding events etc i don't see how it can be done without strong policing by the mods or a dedicated RP server.

"Passive XP"? If your character isn't actively earning XP you earn a certain amount of XP for every minute that passes. There MUST be character input of some kind for the xp to be tabulated. This is so it doesn't become "idle xp".

Sounds terrible.

MornaBaine

As an avid roleplayer who often laughs at the hours I spend in this game NOT gaining XP I WISH there was a way to do this. But there really isn't.

LuxLunae

We can't go by hr count because then it will be like having zombies in town.. many will be afk for simple exp and still be logged in -_-...

Gidorick

Maybe the OP @Faugaun‌ has an idea or two.

Tandor

It would need to be a lot of xp to persuade me to walk everywhere instead of running, which is what seems to define role-players in most MMOs !

Roechacca

After the grinding nerf ... I'm all ears !

morvegil

Faugaun wrote: »

Be the first major mmo to give exp for RPing

How?

Roechacca

I'll RP the *** out of this game if I can level faster .

RunAway

I guess it could be possible by having a sort of "RP reputation system" in the game, where other players can + rep you if you RP well or - rep if you don't.

There would have to be exclusions though, to stop people in guilds +'ing each other for XP.

Disclaimer - Just an idea off the top of my head.

SFBryan18

Minigames in the taverns for small amounts of xp wouldn't hurt.

Koloki

ok the only way i can see this being possible, is with the community deciding who is doing "xp-worth-RP". So imagine a system where you can give away say 10k of your xp to player you think is doing cool RP.
You can give away as much as you want (as long as you don't go down a lvl) but the person can only receive a limited amount every hour or so.

Gidorick

RunAway wrote: »

I guess it could be possible by having a sort of "RP reputation system" in the game, where other players can + rep you if you RP well or - rep if you don't.

There would have to be exclusions though, to stop people in guilds +'ing each other for XP.

Disclaimer - Just an idea off the top of my head.

This would be horribly abused. progression should never depend solely on other players.and the way players would get the most RP XP would be by dancing as scantily clad women.

Lol. It would create a Tamriel stripping industry!

Gidorick

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Minigames in the taverns for small amounts of xp wouldn't hurt.

This would be great!

Jahosefat

We should get xp for emoting 10x xp for /lute within 1 minute of a killing blow in pvp

Grunim

The OP really made me smile and remember the various RP Enforced MUDs I used to play in the '90s and early 2000s. I've seen several variants of MUDs that attempted to reward roleplayers with XP through various means and all of them were full of players who gamed and abused the RP XP reward systems to death.

I've played games where staff members would snoop players and manually award experience. In one of my favorite MUDs, Shattered Kingdoms, nothing would thrill a player more than to be involved in an intricate RP session and suddenly see the following message: You have received Enlightenment from the Gods. While testing the Champion System on PTS, I wonder if some of the ZOS Devs played that MUD too. As much as this MUD immersed me, its enlightenment system was rift with favoritism and was very labor intensive to administer.

I've also played MUDs that had a reputation system and these systems were prone to corruption and favoritism. I also played MUDs that attempted to automate XP rewards by monitoring the number of emotes, poses, word counts, unique word counts used in says and emotes and so forth. In this sort of system, players would creatively game the system by writing so much text, much of it not truly RP.

Perhaps you have a better idea of why MMOs don't reward XP for RP?

Faugaun

OK here's how...guilds are periodically visited and examined by zos employees (gm style so players dunno when they are visited). Then based on observation criteria (which should never be released to players) the guild is given a score. Let's call it 1-10 (1 being no rp and 10 being nothing but rp) and based on that score all members of that guild receive x experience per hour while logged on until the next review.

Since the GM review is without players knowing and the evaluation criteria are unknown then it would be really hard for a guild to bluff a false rp. Guilds are encouraged to eliminate players who do not rp at a level satisfactory for the guild focus (thus the will kick those who do not rp enough, this will prevent too much abuse). Obviously if you are in 5 rp guilds and very actively rp in all of them you will get the maximum exp, maybe 2 guilds is sufficient to receive maximum exp.

An alternate method would be to build a crawler (much like search engines use to scan website and determine how to categorize the web pages) except instead of web pages they would be categorizing chat content based on well defined criteria (which is not made public) perhaps keywords like using players character names and Temriel and dunmer, bosmer, argonian etc... at thresholds above a certain defined minimum (which can be determined by comparing against base levels from known high rp guilds)....this crawler could also look for duplicate content (like search engines) and things that are picked up as duplicate could review a manual examination to determine if it is legit or someone trying to game the system.

perhaps these techniques can be combined such that manual review is requested by the guild leader... at some point a manual review is conducted to gather base line levels of different triggers and to place the guild in an initial score (the score used to dictate the level of rp and thus the level of experience for the guild). Then individual accounts could be scanned and given a modifier score so even if in a rp guild if they have a low personal score they get modified lower, but a high score will be modified higher. Any major deviations from the baseline for an account/guild or outliers in general might trigger a manual review just to ensure it is within compliance. There is a balance needed here that is not enough triggers to be unmanageable by Zos for manual reviews but sufficient to prevent the bulk of abuse.

Beyond that if someone "games" the system, I am really not that concerned...i mean seriously if your idea of fun is gaming the system and gaining levels in illegitimate ways, your level has a very minimal impact on other players and it is no skin off my back.

The number of people who would benefit from this is huge and it would really make TESO the king of RP in the mmo world. That's much greater than the problem of a few people abusing the system imho.

@Gidorick‌ @Sylvyr @Koloki‌ @MornaBaine‌ @LuxLunae‌ @Tandor‌ @roechacca‌ @RunAway‌ @SFBryan18‌ @Jahosefat‌

P.S. Sorry I had IRL issue come up, I was typing a response and got pulled away, but as requested here is a feasible approach.

please discuss

Faugaun

Here's an analogy here in the USA and in many other place there are social programs. In the USA we have one called welfare...guess what people abuse it left and right (that what people do they abuse systems for their own personal benefit). There are still people who deserve our help though (such as the war veteran who has a mental condition which prevents him from rejoining society, or the quadraplegic....).

RPers are the same way, they play the game they do stuff, they keep the lights on for ZOS just like any other player (perhaps more than other players when costume vanity items hit the crown shop) they deserve experience for the time they put into the game. The fact that others would abuse the system is not a good reason to prevent those who do not from getting fair experience for what they do. We should do our best to prevent abuse but not allowing RPers experience for legitimately playing the game because someone might abuse the system is dumb.

Zos would be the only AAA mmo (that I know of) to offer exp to RPers...thats gotta draw a crowd.

Faugaun

Faugaun wrote: »

perhaps these techniques can be combined such that manual review is requested by the guild leader... at some point a manual review is conducted to gather base line levels of different triggers and to place the guild in an initial score (the score used to dictate the level of rp and thus the level of experience for the guild). Then individual accounts could be scanned and given a modifier score so even if in a rp guild if they have a low personal score they get modified lower, but a high score will be modified higher. Any major deviations from the baseline for an account/guild or outliers in general might trigger a manual review just to ensure it is within compliance. There is a balance needed here that is not enough triggers to be unmanageable by Zos for manual reviews but sufficient to prevent the bulk of abuse.

sorry this was not clear, was trying to say that a guild leader could request a manual review and then zos could at some point (say within 30 days) conduct a manual review ...

and then was saying that a crawler, manual review, guild leader requests etc... could all be combined to create and effective system.

Tandor

Faugaun wrote: »

OK here's how...guilds are periodically visited and examined by zos employees (gm style so players dunno when they are visited). Then based on observation criteria (which should never be released to players) the guild is given a score. Let's call it 1-10 (1 being no rp and 10 being nothing but rp) and based on that score all members of that guild receive x experience per hour while logged on until the next review.

And for those who don't want to be in a guild? A lot of the best role-playing is often done by those individuals who walk into a role-play session in e.g. an inn and join in off the bat. They shouldn't be excluded from any reward system.

Sylvyr

Not sure how I got @'d but hey if I can put out a wall of text I better damn well be able to read one...

I used to RP back in the day on a WoT Mud and a shadowrun MUSH. I dunno, something about text only... Since I also have FPS shooter background, I see graphics and combat and something just takes over.

I think you're right though, systems catering to RP would be a breakthrough, question is will the corporate backbone see it as profit making over cost of implementation? Even if it does will it bring more profit over allocating resources to other projects like new zones, etc etc.

Lot of question marks around that.

Nivzruo_ESO

Sure, I'll dance naked at crafting stations or where ever for exp.

Sylvyr

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

Sure, I'll dance naked at crafting stations or where ever for exp.

Did I mention more nudity would be a draw?

Gidorick

Sylvyr wrote: »

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

Sure, I'll dance naked at crafting stations or where ever for exp.

Did I mention more nudity would be a draw?

See! Strip clubs are on their way.

Gidorick

Tandor wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

OK here's how...guilds are periodically visited and examined by zos employees (gm style so players dunno when they are visited). Then based on observation criteria (which should never be released to players) the guild is given a score. Let's call it 1-10 (1 being no rp and 10 being nothing but rp) and based on that score all members of that guild receive x experience per hour while logged on until the next review.

And for those who don't want to be in a guild? A lot of the best role-playing is often done by those individuals who walk into a role-play session in e.g. an inn and join in off the bat. They shouldn't be excluded from any reward system.

I actually roleplay pretty extensively with one person. We play brothers in game (we even have the same last name) and reference our lives. We discuss things in group relating to the faction war and we communicate AS our characters (outside of the game in voice-chat we shoot the breeze and small talk as ourselves).

If RPing guilds only received RPXP the people who RP like I do would totally be left out.

Gidorick

Faugaun wrote: »

OK here's how...
(snip)

You have a lot of interesting ideas but there are a few glaring issues.

• We can't even get ZOS to answer questions on their own forums... which would require 5 or 10 minutes. We definitely aren't going to get ZOS to pay for people to monitor RP groups for hours to give out RPXP. There would be no financial gain for ZOS.
• Only having these GMs review guilds would again be limiting the people who can participate in this gameplay mechanic. Some people aren't in RP guilds and requiring players to join RP Guilds to have a chance at RPXP would be an unfair mechanic. Especially since this mechanic would rely on a player-created group to exist.
• Players who participate in RP content on a regular basis (especially those that joined the RP guild to try to get RPXP) would be on this forum complaining that ZOS is unfair and they haven't received their RPXP and they have RPed X number of hours on X number of locations.
• The Crawler concept is interesting but it would lead to people standing around saying nonsense they pulled from a database made by people who have figured out the types of words they must use
  "Altmer Dumner Horse Brother Faction Scroll Keep Dwemer Dungeon King!"

In order for a system to be viable it would have to

1. Be applicable to all players
2. Be impartial
3. Be quantifiable
4. Be track-able
5. Require no direct maintenance from ZOS
6. Not be given to players by players

Jahosefat wrote: »

We should get xp for emoting 10x xp for /lute within 1 minute of a killing blow in pvp

I like the idea of adding XP to emotes and timing. There is a /Dishonor and /honor emote that would be good for PVP matches.

Contextual emotes would work really well for this type of idea. If someone within a certain radius emotes drunk and you emote laugh, you get some RPXP. Have a cool down for RPXP from emotes to prevent abuse. If you emoted with a lute and someone dances and gets some RPXP they shouldn't get RPXP from a dance emote for 5 minutes or so.

These emotes could be synergetic to where if people play emotes in a certain order and create a little scene both people get RPXP multipliers.

While players could figure out the order of these emotes if the RPXP is dependent on strings of emotes with cooldowns we wouldn't end up with people just standing around doing specific emotes for RPXP.

Specific emotes in specific locations could also reward RPXP.
Pray in a temple? You get RPXP!
Pray in a blacksmith forge? You get nothing.

This kind of system could work.

Faugaun

Gidorick wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

OK here's how...
(snip)

You have a lot of interesting ideas but there are a few glaring issues.

• We can't even get ZOS to answer questions on their own forums... which would require 5 or 10 minutes. We definitely aren't going to get ZOS to pay for people to monitor RP groups for hours to give out RPXP. There would be no financial gain for ZOS.
• Only having these GMs review guilds would again be limiting the people who can participate in this gameplay mechanic. Some people aren't in RP guilds and requiring players to join RP Guilds to have a chance at RPXP would be an unfair mechanic. Especially since this mechanic would rely on a player-created group to exist.
• Players who participate in RP content on a regular basis (especially those that joined the RP guild to try to get RPXP) would be on this forum complaining that ZOS is unfair and they haven't received their RPXP and they have RPed X number of hours on X number of locations.
• The Crawler concept is interesting but it would lead to people standing around saying nonsense they pulled from a database made by people who have figured out the types of words they must use
  "Altmer Dumner Horse Brother Faction Scroll Keep Dwemer Dungeon King!"

In order for a system to be viable it would have to

1. Be applicable to all players
2. Be impartial
3. Be quantifiable
4. Be track-able
5. Require no direct maintenance from ZOS
6. Not be given to players by players

Jahosefat wrote: »

We should get xp for emoting 10x xp for /lute within 1 minute of a killing blow in pvp

I like the idea of adding XP to emotes and timing. There is a /Dishonor and /honor emote that would be good for PVP matches.

Contextual emotes would work really well for this type of idea. If someone within a certain radius emotes drunk and you emote laugh, you get some RPXP. Have a cool down for RPXP from emotes to prevent abuse. If you emoted with a lute and someone dances and gets some RPXP they shouldn't get RPXP from a dance emote for 5 minutes or so.

These emotes could be synergetic to where if people play emotes in a certain order and create a little scene both people get RPXP multipliers.

While players could figure out the order of these emotes if the RPXP is dependent on strings of emotes with cooldowns we wouldn't end up with people just standing around doing specific emotes for RPXP.

Specific emotes in specific locations could also reward RPXP.
Pray in a temple? You get RPXP!
Pray in a blacksmith forge? You get nothing.

This kind of system could work.

The emote thing sounds nice and fun, I'll have to think more on it. I know with crawlers and googles penguin algorithm they are able to determine quality of content so gibberish like then line you typed where people were obviously trying to game the system would be identified and lose the rp exp for a set period of time ... Then again googles system is proprietary and I dunno how hard it would be for zos to make a similar system. That is a bit beyond my knowledge base....I still maintain that the fact someone is/could/might abuse the system is not a reason to stop others from getting exp.

Gidorick

Faugaun wrote: »

The emote thing sounds nice and fun, I'll have to think more on it. I know with crawlers and googles penguin algorithm they are able to determine quality of content so gibberish like then line you typed where people were obviously trying to game the system would be identified and lose the rp exp for a set period of time ... Then again googles system is proprietary and I dunno how hard it would be for zos to make a similar system. That is a bit beyond my knowledge base....I still maintain that the fact someone is/could/might abuse the system is not a reason to stop others from getting exp.

Hey, if they could figure it out, I'd be all for it. I just don't know if they could deliver a system that would be meaningful for all players.

I would love to see them try though!