Stat comparison from live to PTS (1.6) Is it really a blanket nerf? Doesn't look like it.

Spiritreaver_ESO

Joejudas wrote: »

Pulling 1.4k dps on the live server and pulling 7k on the live server is a nerf. Nothing anyone does or says would prove to you that ZOS did anything wrong though....because the sign your pay check. It's ok though.

And there you are insulting people(again) and missing a good opportunity to use this thread to solidify your position by contributing data more compelling than that completely out of context gear pic you keep trotting out.

Having said that, i will now ironically add a phrase that became scripture on the the forums for FFXI back in the day: POIDH(Pics Or It Didn't Happen)

The OP did. Shut him up with some of your own showing your dmg against the same type/lvl mob on both PTS and live with the same gear/AB/food/etc setup.

Syntse

Joejudas wrote: »

Pulling 1.4k dps on the live server and pulling 7k on the live server is a nerf. Nothing anyone does or says would prove to you that ZOS did anything wrong though....because the sign your pay check. It's ok though.

So you do 5x the dps you used to and you say it's nerf. I know I know they changed the numbers. Also as indicated they have also lowered the mobs health so your TTK should be about the same. Also as it seems they really didn't just add 0 to the end the modifier seems to be different than pure 10x.

Joejudas

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Pulling 1.4k dps on the live server and pulling 7k on the live server is a nerf. Nothing anyone does or says would prove to you that ZOS did anything wrong though....because the sign your pay check. It's ok though.

Have you tried changing up your actionbars instead of complaining that the exact same abilities aren't as effective as they used to be in combination?

I know that my bars look different now, and I'm pretty sure it's because I read the descriptions of my new abilities and started to figure out which ones are better-suited for my playstyle.

Since your the expert....what's your best SO clear time...since you think I know so little about how dps rotations work ?

Actually, I haven't had the time to hit SO yet, but I'm hoping to do it before 1.6 lands. I have one of those pesky "job" things that prevents me from being on at the times most people are raiding.

Of course, if you want the entire game to be built for the "hardcore" players, then you're asking ZO to ignore 95% of the playerbase. That sounds like bad business to me, but maybe you can explain how they can maintain a game that only you and your elitist friends play.

So don't sit here and try and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. We spent months making builds and farming gear to clear things like SO and they made it all for nothing. So your being selfish by trolling and flaming me for being angry about the fact I'm losing all my progress. Like I said though...It's ok because 1.6 will purge all the good players from the game and you can all have your little RP party without having any serious gamers ruin it for you .

nerevarine1138

Joejudas wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Pulling 1.4k dps on the live server and pulling 7k on the live server is a nerf. Nothing anyone does or says would prove to you that ZOS did anything wrong though....because the sign your pay check. It's ok though.

Have you tried changing up your actionbars instead of complaining that the exact same abilities aren't as effective as they used to be in combination?

I know that my bars look different now, and I'm pretty sure it's because I read the descriptions of my new abilities and started to figure out which ones are better-suited for my playstyle.

Since your the expert....what's your best SO clear time...since you think I know so little about how dps rotations work ?

Actually, I haven't had the time to hit SO yet, but I'm hoping to do it before 1.6 lands. I have one of those pesky "job" things that prevents me from being on at the times most people are raiding.

Of course, if you want the entire game to be built for the "hardcore" players, then you're asking ZO to ignore 95% of the playerbase. That sounds like bad business to me, but maybe you can explain how they can maintain a game that only you and your elitist friends play.

So don't sit here and try and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. We spent months making builds and farming gear to clear things like SO and they made it all for nothing. So your being selfish by trolling and flaming me for being angry about the fact I'm losing all my progress. Like I said though...It's ok because 1.6 will purge all the good players from the game and you can all have your little RP party without having any serious gamers ruin it for you .

I'm sorry I didn't pass your "serious gamers" qualification test by not having run one piece of content in the entire game. I mean, sure, maybe I realized that the entire game wasn't built around reaching SO and clearing it in a specific time. But that's crazy talk, right?

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Joejudas wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Pulling 1.4k dps on the live server and pulling 7k on the live server is a nerf. Nothing anyone does or says would prove to you that ZOS did anything wrong though....because the sign your pay check. It's ok though.

Have you tried changing up your actionbars instead of complaining that the exact same abilities aren't as effective as they used to be in combination?

I know that my bars look different now, and I'm pretty sure it's because I read the descriptions of my new abilities and started to figure out which ones are better-suited for my playstyle.

Since your the expert....what's your best SO clear time...since you think I know so little about how dps rotations work ?

Strawman much?

You're the one asserting a massive nerf is happening, how about YOU demonstrating that which you're asserting with no proof beyond isolated screenshot of gear stats, divorced from any evidence of the EFFECT of those changes?

BTW, it's "since you're", just so you know.

Merlin13KAGL

There's way more to it than that.

It's not a simple 1:1 comparison of just one stat.

Every skill changed, gear changed...

Stats went up by a factor of 10 (from base), health went up by a factor of 11 (from the base, disregarding the 50% bonus before - it's a 10% bonus now instead)

Enchants did not go up by a factor of 10.

Food did not go up by a factor of 10. (The VR10 converted food is weaker than its VR5 live equivalent)

Potions did not go up by a factor of 10 (they went down further considering you have a 50% longer cooldown now.)

Regen's did not go up by a factor of 10.

Some things give you no friction at all. (I shouldn't be able to close a Cyro dolmen without even trying a little.)

Other things are insane (due to changes in skill functionality) (First glance Vet Group Dungeons, Resource capture, etc).

They pulled a 1.3 (?) all over again - introducing scaling at the same time they buffed bosses/Group Dungeons.

When testing a system, you don't modify 50 variables at once and then wonder why the result is different. That's exactly what they've done.

Because of this, you can't do a 1:1 (read that 10:1) comparison of DPS.

Because so many things have changed, expecting x10 DPS may or may not be right - I've dropped stuff with what appears to be crappy #'s and not dropped stuff with what appeared to be high #'s.

Some things need cranked up, others need cranked down. The problem with the implementation, is they won't know where to start.

It's the damned "Butterfly Effect."

(Anyone have video of Vet Group Dungeons / Trials / DSA yet, whether successful or downright tragic?)

Valencer

^ And that's precisely why proclaiming Armageddon is ridiculous right now. Soooo much has changed. Some skills have completely different uses now and some content will be harder/easier intentionally. New tactics are needed. 1.6 is a completely different game.

Just shouting "stat didn't go up by 10x" is so out of context it's not even worth discussing. If they had done this major rebalance before the champion system was added (and thus without the larger scaled numbers), you'd all still be complaining.

MADshadowman

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/149245/are-there-any-known-conversion-formulas-for-the-new-stats-system#latest

Alphashado

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

There's way more to it than that.

It's not a simple 1:1 comparison of just one stat.

Every skill changed, gear changed...

Stats went up by a factor of 10 (from base), health went up by a factor of 11 (from the base, disregarding the 50% bonus before - it's a 10% bonus now instead)

Enchants did not go up by a factor of 10.

Food did not go up by a factor of 10. (The VR10 converted food is weaker than its VR5 live equivalent)

Potions did not go up by a factor of 10 (they went down further considering you have a 50% longer cooldown now.)

Regen's did not go up by a factor of 10.

Some things give you no friction at all. (I shouldn't be able to close a Cyro dolmen without even trying a little.)

Other things are insane (due to changes in skill functionality) (First glance Vet Group Dungeons, Resource capture, etc).

They pulled a 1.3 (?) all over again - introducing scaling at the same time they buffed bosses/Group Dungeons.

When testing a system, you don't modify 50 variables at once and then wonder why the result is different. That's exactly what they've done.

Because of this, you can't do a 1:1 (read that 10:1) comparison of DPS.

Because so many things have changed, expecting x10 DPS may or may not be right - I've dropped stuff with what appears to be crappy #'s and not dropped stuff with what appeared to be high #'s.

Some things need cranked up, others need cranked down. The problem with the implementation, is they won't know where to start.

It's the damned "Butterfly Effect."

(Anyone have video of Vet Group Dungeons / Trials / DSA yet, whether successful or downright tragic?)

I was just in the process of doing another small test. I wanted to snap a screenshot of FTC damage data vs a Live Giant and a PTS giant. I was going to point out that you would need to disregard the DPS and actually look at how long it took to kill the giant. Since you cannot simply add a zero (there are too many variables in the conversion like crit, spell resistance, etc) the only way to get an accurate comparison is to take a look at the duration of the fight.

I ran about 20 fights on each server and took the best results. Using the same rotation netted me an absolute nerf on the PTS. However, once I started using the new Templar Finisher (Radiant Destruction), things balanced out perfectly.

Live version. 1k+ DPS. We are all familiar with live version numbers and most of you will know that 1k+ is very good for a casting Templar. Note the duration of the encounter - 6.9 seconds.



Now on the PTS. (1.6) *note that the same exact rotation I used on live was very significantly nerfed on the PTS. However adding the new Finisher to the same rotation changed things drastically. Note the duration of the encounter 7.0 seconds.




This is obviously only a small test with very isolated results. It should in no way represent a long sustained fight. That would have to be a separate test. But the point I am making is that yes, things were nerfed. The Crushing Shock build I am using on the live version (yes in trials) does much less damage on the PTS until you add in a new skill that comes with 1.6

In other words, if you just change a few things around, you can get the same results.


**It would be very easy for a disgruntled player to post a picture showing lower results on the PTS without really trying to change anything just to prove a point. I can only ask that you trust me in so far as I conducted this test with sincere desire for accurate data.

manny254

The problem is that builds where created that make the most of the current system. If the system changes you need to adapt and improve your build.

In my guild a dk using dual wield (much like JoeJudas) does not pull 7k. He actually has gotten 12k damage consistently, and I know a magic based dk who has gotten 11k. Most of the damage I have seen from all classes be it magic or stamina has been around 11-13k, and that is awesome. These are early numbers, but the game feels very balanced (especially relative to where it was).

You need to get your head out of the past and move on.

The game is more balanced then ever before, but to many people are complaining instead of adapting.

BBSooner

When it comes to these threads, viewable evidence is weighed more heavily than anecdotal. I appreciate you taking the time to post a small sample, @Alphashado‌

Alphashado

BBSooner wrote: »

I appreciate you taking the time to post a small sample, @Alphashado‌

That small sentence carries much weight with me right now. You are very welcome