Wait...YOU want incentive in your PVP, NEVER!!!!!
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Skorner64
Soul Shriven
I just want to start off by saying I have been following ESO since it's launch, and always loved the sound of the 3 alliance PVP system. It initially reminded me of Guild Wars 2 WvW system that I enjoyed for awhile. The only large glaring difference I saw was that unlike GW2's system where the only goal was to climb a server leaderboard, ESO was developing actual incentive to fight for the keeps in this zone.
The first mentioned incentive for players was the emperorship which while cool, didn't seem all that great to me considering it would probably be attainable only by no-lifers. What I was excited about though, was the conquering alliance in the war gaining control of an actual city within the game (Imperial City). Giving the owners perks and content that the other 2 alliances would want for themselves. This would give the on-going fight an incentive which is sorely lacking in most mmo's today. The city sounded like something worth fighting to claim and defend. Instead of just chasing leaderboards, and bragging rights which are shallow elements.
When ESO launched I found that the Imperial City wasn't ready yet to my surprise, so I waited to buy the game. After months and months of looking back now and then at the games development, I continued to see that the city still wasn't implemented and kept being pushed back in favor of other quality of game improvements (understandable). But to me this left no real substance and reason to fight in the war within the game. So I continued to hold out on purchasing the game. Because PVP without true incentive can be found everywhere you look from shooters to MOBA's.
About a month ago during a Steam sale I finally bought the game. I recently had read updates claiming that the Imperial City was close to being ready for the PTS servers and would most likely be released in update 1.7 . The game is currently in update 1.5, so I went ahead and bought the game.
Now as everyone should know by now on these forums that the game is now switching it's business model to buy-to-play instead of subscription based, which is awesome for all. but it also means most new content added will be behind a pay wall (DLC or ESO PLUS).
My argument here is putting something like the Imperial City, which is very much going to be a CORE component of pvp in Cyrodiil like it should have been from day one...is a horrible idea. This addition should not be considered optional content to be put behind a pay wall by developers.
The reason it should not be put behind a pay wall is because it is a CORE component of the game, ONE of the MAIN reasons to band together with your alliance to fight in the first place. If only some of the players on either alliance have paid access to entering/using the imperial city, the ones that do not have access and have not paid for the content will not have the same motivation to capture it as the ones who do have access to its benefits. They simply will not care if their alliance has ownership because they can't use it anyways.
It will fracture the pvp community around the game, to people who are fighting for a grand prize (Imperial City) and are very involved and immersed in the on-going battle, to many who are just fighting some one off fun because they could not use the city even if their alliance owned it.
While there will be players who still only join PVP for some one off fun, and not everyone will care for the alliance ownership of the city, I can see more people caring if they can actually use the spoils of war, as opposed to watching their friends enter the city they just helped conquer while watching from outside the gates.
I have nothing at all against DLC and paid content, if done right. Additional pve lands, dungeons, quests and other content that is entirely optional and isn't a core feature for the enjoyment of the main game on offer makes total sense to me. But the segmenting of a core element of gameplay (PVP incentive) does not make any sense.
I won't even bother reiterating how long the devs have teased the Imperial City since launch or how they described taking the throne in various devblogs prior to the game even releasing. I will though mention that so far they have made a lot of empty promises concerning the Imperial City and I personally feel like Cyrodiil and pvp as a whole has suffered in ESO because of this missing feature.
I hope that they don't make a huge mistake and put this CORE element of gameplay behind a paywall because if they do, I will NOT be playing ESO. I will basically see it as locking CORE elements of the game behind a pay wall while still calling your game BUY-2-PLAY, and that I wont stand for and neither should anyone, in my opinion.
Sorry for the wall of text, but please leave some comments below explaining whether you feel like I have a valid point and the Imperial City is a piece of CORE content providing pvp motivation and incentive, something that was promised even before the game was released on PC, OR do you think I'm wrong and that everything after update 1.6 is fair game to put behind a pay wall, regardless of prior promise.
The first mentioned incentive for players was the emperorship which while cool, didn't seem all that great to me considering it would probably be attainable only by no-lifers. What I was excited about though, was the conquering alliance in the war gaining control of an actual city within the game (Imperial City). Giving the owners perks and content that the other 2 alliances would want for themselves. This would give the on-going fight an incentive which is sorely lacking in most mmo's today. The city sounded like something worth fighting to claim and defend. Instead of just chasing leaderboards, and bragging rights which are shallow elements.
When ESO launched I found that the Imperial City wasn't ready yet to my surprise, so I waited to buy the game. After months and months of looking back now and then at the games development, I continued to see that the city still wasn't implemented and kept being pushed back in favor of other quality of game improvements (understandable). But to me this left no real substance and reason to fight in the war within the game. So I continued to hold out on purchasing the game. Because PVP without true incentive can be found everywhere you look from shooters to MOBA's.
About a month ago during a Steam sale I finally bought the game. I recently had read updates claiming that the Imperial City was close to being ready for the PTS servers and would most likely be released in update 1.7 . The game is currently in update 1.5, so I went ahead and bought the game.
Now as everyone should know by now on these forums that the game is now switching it's business model to buy-to-play instead of subscription based, which is awesome for all. but it also means most new content added will be behind a pay wall (DLC or ESO PLUS).
My argument here is putting something like the Imperial City, which is very much going to be a CORE component of pvp in Cyrodiil like it should have been from day one...is a horrible idea. This addition should not be considered optional content to be put behind a pay wall by developers.
The reason it should not be put behind a pay wall is because it is a CORE component of the game, ONE of the MAIN reasons to band together with your alliance to fight in the first place. If only some of the players on either alliance have paid access to entering/using the imperial city, the ones that do not have access and have not paid for the content will not have the same motivation to capture it as the ones who do have access to its benefits. They simply will not care if their alliance has ownership because they can't use it anyways.
It will fracture the pvp community around the game, to people who are fighting for a grand prize (Imperial City) and are very involved and immersed in the on-going battle, to many who are just fighting some one off fun because they could not use the city even if their alliance owned it.
While there will be players who still only join PVP for some one off fun, and not everyone will care for the alliance ownership of the city, I can see more people caring if they can actually use the spoils of war, as opposed to watching their friends enter the city they just helped conquer while watching from outside the gates.
I have nothing at all against DLC and paid content, if done right. Additional pve lands, dungeons, quests and other content that is entirely optional and isn't a core feature for the enjoyment of the main game on offer makes total sense to me. But the segmenting of a core element of gameplay (PVP incentive) does not make any sense.
I won't even bother reiterating how long the devs have teased the Imperial City since launch or how they described taking the throne in various devblogs prior to the game even releasing. I will though mention that so far they have made a lot of empty promises concerning the Imperial City and I personally feel like Cyrodiil and pvp as a whole has suffered in ESO because of this missing feature.
I hope that they don't make a huge mistake and put this CORE element of gameplay behind a paywall because if they do, I will NOT be playing ESO. I will basically see it as locking CORE elements of the game behind a pay wall while still calling your game BUY-2-PLAY, and that I wont stand for and neither should anyone, in my opinion.
Sorry for the wall of text, but please leave some comments below explaining whether you feel like I have a valid point and the Imperial City is a piece of CORE content providing pvp motivation and incentive, something that was promised even before the game was released on PC, OR do you think I'm wrong and that everything after update 1.6 is fair game to put behind a pay wall, regardless of prior promise.
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TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nice post. I don't think that they will or even can being that it's a core mechanic and not just some zone with new quests.Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
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Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree with your stance on this being core gameplay. And that is the main reason I agree that it should be freely accessible, in line with this statement on future gameplay content: "regular updates and new gameplay will be offered to all players to enjoy free of additional charges".
I'd also encourage you to vote and post on my poll on this topic, and back-link this thread in it as well if you like
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Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭Nice I agree I think overall access to capture and defend it should be free.....but the dungeon inside could be behind a pay wall if they wanted.Edited by Joejudas on January 23, 2015 7:45PM0 -
RadioheadSh0t✭✭✭✭✭I wouldn't call it a core component to PVP, it's another PVE zone they're throwing in the middle of the PVP area instead of actually adding any form of valuable PVP content to the game.
PVPers have been pretty clearly ignored in the list of ESO priorities and rarely, if ever, mentioned in any future plans.Aldonius Direnni - Vet Altmer Sorc (AD)
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Telel✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you were going to get it by subscribing anyways then having to stay subscribed in order to get access should not be a huge issue.
Unless you plan to cancel your subscription now you'll be no worse off when it's released than when you bought the game knowing full well you'd be paying a monthly fee for the continued updates.Character: Telel
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Also: Gelel the Derp Knight, Altsel the streaker, and Filafel the temp temp.
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Skorner64Soul ShrivenIf you were going to get it by subscribing anyways then having to stay subscribed in order to get access should not be a huge issue.
Unless you plan to cancel your subscription now you'll be no worse off when it's released than when you bought the game knowing full well you'd be paying a monthly fee for the continued updates.
This is true for all future DLC content, if you subscribed to ESO PLUS you will get it all. But all future DLC content was promised be optional content that adds to the game, but wont fracture the core components of the game.
If you bother reading the OP, you would see that the problem I and many others have with PVP incentive being locked behind a paywall is that it effects the main game, the whole land of Cyrodiil. It will determine peoples investment and motivation within Cyrodiil.
It would fracture the people fighting to those that care about capturing the city because they can actually use it, to those who would not care how the war ends up because they could not enjoy the spoils anyways.
Not to mention it has been promised to subscribers since launch.
Edited by Skorner64 on January 23, 2015 8:37PM2 -
Darklord_Tiberius✭✭✭✭If they put paywalls in PVP, than this games pvp is done for certain lol...
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Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The need to nerf CrownsCasting and Paywall Stacking in pvp now before it gets out of hand .3 -
Skorner64Soul ShrivenI for one hope they tell us fans of pvp with incentive, whether the Imperial City will be put behind a paywall very soon. Because I am not going to play the game until I get confirmation that they will NOT paywall PVP rewards/incentive.
I mean why play and invest time and effort into building my character only to have to abandon it, and quit playing. If they do indeed announce Imperial City will in fact be behind a paywall DLC.0 -
tonemd✭✭✭✭
Subscribers will get it. "Buy 2 Play" will get it if they want it. B2P = non-subscriber (promised nothing). All this does is keep B2P PVErs out of cyrodil campaigns that aren't buff servers. So....nothing changes.
Unless you plan to unsub. The day I unsub is the day that I stop playing this game.0 -
Skorner64Soul ShrivenSo I have been keeping a very close eye on today's Reddit AMA, while it has been very informative and helpful to questions about the consoles and the new payment models it has barely touched on many of the PVP related questions. Most of the time being very vague or giving little to no answers at all.
On question in particular was about the PVP version of the justice system they are thinking about implementing after 1.6. Unlike many of the Imperial City PVP questions, this question was given a direct answer so that's something to be happy about.
Q: "Please talk about how the PVP portion of the Justice system will work with Tamriel Unlimited. Is this portion now DLC?"
A: "If/when it makes it in to the game, it will not be as part of a paid DLC. "
While all the Imperial City questions were either dodged completely or given this answer.
Q: "With no PVP content since launch and the Imperial City being such an integral part of Cyrodiil when launched, will the IC be now considered DLC? It would seem quite difficult to separate the two."
A: "We're working through the details for this right now - stay tuned for details."
I guess our answer is "stay tuned". But...since they were able to give definitive answers to questions regarding the pvp portion of the justice system and many other game additions being either DLC or not...and not being able to do the same when asked about the Imperial City...it's not looking good.Edited by Skorner64 on January 23, 2015 9:21PM1 -
So I have been keeping a very close eye on today's Reddit AMA, while it has been very informative and helpful to questions about the consoles and the new payment models it has barely touched on many of the PVP related questions. Most of the time being very vague or giving little to no answers at all.
On question in particular was about the PVP version of the justice system they are thinking about implementing after 1.6. Unlike many of the Imperial City PVP questions, this question was given a direct answer so that's something to be happy about.
Q: "Please talk about how the PVP portion of the Justice system will work with Tamriel Unlimited. Is this portion now DLC?"
A: "If/when it makes it in to the game, it will not be as part of a paid DLC. "
While all the Imperial City questions were either dodged completely or given this answer.
Q: "With no PVP content since launch and the Imperial City being such an integral part of Cyrodiil when launched, will the IC be now considered DLC? It would seem quite difficult to separate the two."
A: "We're working through the details for this right now - stay tuned for details."
I guess our answer is "stay tuned". But...since they were able to give definitive answers to questions regarding the pvp portion of the justice system and many other game additions being either DLC or not...and not being able to do the same when asked about the Imperial City...it's not looking good.
Stay tuned = DLC
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Skorner64Soul ShrivenSaint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »Stay tuned = DLC
sadly if they do lock something like pvp incentive aka imperial city, behind a paywall i myself will not be playing the game any longer.0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So I have been keeping a very close eye on today's Reddit AMA, while it has been very informative and helpful to questions about the consoles and the new payment models it has barely touched on many of the PVP related questions. Most of the time being very vague or giving little to no answers at all.
On question in particular was about the PVP version of the justice system they are thinking about implementing after 1.6. Unlike many of the Imperial City PVP questions, this question was given a direct answer so that's something to be happy about.
Q: "Please talk about how the PVP portion of the Justice system will work with Tamriel Unlimited. Is this portion now DLC?"
A: "If/when it makes it in to the game, it will not be as part of a paid DLC. "
While all the Imperial City questions were either dodged completely or given this answer.
Q: "With no PVP content since launch and the Imperial City being such an integral part of Cyrodiil when launched, will the IC be now considered DLC? It would seem quite difficult to separate the two."
A: "We're working through the details for this right now - stay tuned for details."
I guess our answer is "stay tuned". But...since they were able to give definitive answers to questions regarding the pvp portion of the justice system and many other game additions being either DLC or not...and not being able to do the same when asked about the Imperial City...it's not looking good.
Good catch on Justice PvP. That's one to strike off the list. I'm not surprised they said that about Imperial City; my guess is, they haven't fully decided yet and want to see how the launch of TU goes. That gives us quite a bit of time to keep putting forward the reasons why it should not be paid DLC.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
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Skorner64Soul ShrivenI'm literally waiting for the answers on the Imperial City, to get back into the game....I'm itching to play, hopefully they work out the details and reveal them soon.
I don't want to start and put time into my characters only to quit, if they end up making the wrong decision on this one.
I mean I don't see how they could... given that they would be going against their new B2P/DLC stance/philosophy of selling only additional content that doesn't effect or limit yourself in the original game content (Cyrodiil in this case). But stranger decisions/mistakes have been made.0 -
Gothren✭✭✭✭✭Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »If they put paywalls in PVP, than this games pvp is done for certain lol...
+10
