Lethal Arrow Healing Debuff. Stack intended? [vid included]

Maulkin

If you apply healing debuff from Lethal Arrow on the same target again and again it stacks, reducing the healing to practically 0. Watch the vid...

http://youtu.be/j9eMjcSbwbM

In the past ZOS acted to remove debuffs stacking on the same target. Like this example from patch 1.4.3:

Dragonknight

• Ardent Flame
  • Burning Breath: The armor reduction debuff from this ability will no longer stack.

Link:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/131752/patch-notes-v1-4-3


So is this healing debuff stacking intended or not? At the moment if you don't have purge in Cyrodiil, you are as good as dead.

Manoekin

Not intended.

Maulkin

Manoekin wrote: »

Not intended.

I don't think so either, it's too much and behaves differently from everything else.

Couple of interesting things. You can block the debuff (by hodling block) from Lethal Arrow but not Reverberating Bash (s&b ability). However the healing debuff from Arrow stacks with itself, however Bash doesn't do that.

Finally, you can stack the 3 common types of healing debuffs: lethal arrow, reverberating bash, or befouled weapon enchant. That said the befouled enchant doesn't seem to go through block and it has an undetermined proc chance on the healing debuff.

Basically if I hit you with a befouled weapon, you will take the disease damage but might or might not get the healing debuff. But you don't know the % of the chance.

WTF Zeni this is all such a clusterfrag...again.

Samadhi

This needs a fix sooner rather than later.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ or anyone else @ZOS could you please pass this along to whichever team can fix this issue?

Minsc

Does the healing debuff from the Heavy armor Cyrodiil's Crest stack with all these?

Maulkin

Minsc wrote: »

Does the healing debuff from the Heavy armor Cyrodiil's Crest stack with all these?

Good question. I don't have the set so I can't test, but the correct behaviour would be to stack.

Rylana

Told ya so. >_> Glad to see it confirmed, but yeah i been noticing this for a while now.

FIX IT.

TheBull

U figured it was ESO being ESO... I noticed it a couple times, but shrugged it off.

Samadhi

Minsc wrote: »

Does the healing debuff from the Heavy armor Cyrodiil's Crest stack with all these?

Stacked with Nightblade ultimate Death Stroke back in my tests prior 1.5.

Would presume it stacks correctly with others.

Xsorus

All different healing debuffs stack in this game.

This has been this way for a while, Its what makes bloody Meatbag Catapults a death sentence

Maulkin

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

All different healing debuffs stack in this game.

This has been this way for a while, Its what makes bloody Meatbag Catapults a death sentence

Stacking different debuffs is normal. Stacking the same debuff is not.

Thejollygreenone

Yeah, I'm an avid bow user and even I can say this screams bug. Even if not bug then severely imbalanced. Healing debuffs from separate abilities should be able to stack imo, but certainly not from the same ability used over and over.

However if they're going to be putting some time into fixing the way Lethal Arrow applies its heal debuff in PvP, I would like to see them fix this stacking issue primarily, but also fix it not applying on block

Unless its the opposite issue on that latter topic, and that no healing debuffs are supposed to go through block, in which case keep it but change other healing debuffs that ignore block to abide by the same rules?

Just some consistency is all I'm lookin for.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Glad ive always morphed to lethal arrow. I knew the bow changes would result in even more bows in cyrodil, but I didnt know they snuck in stacking heal debuff in 1.5, which is whack and needs immediate fix. Even without this i believe lethal arrow spam would just equate to death to your target, but whatevs... people of the bow will remain willfully ignorant of it in order to profit.

My 2h build is unusable so I'll be getting my lethal arrow kills until they fix it. Zos needs to stop releasing these major bugs every damn patch

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Ill add that lethal arrows seem to be intermittently unreflectable, without the attacker being stealthed, and when the do get reflected they dont always do damage. Will have to experiment more with that.

Maulkin

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Ill add that lethal arrows seem to be intermittently unreflectable, without the attacker being stealthed, and when the do get reflected they dont always do damage. Will have to experiment more with that.

There's DK archers out there. If they activate their own Scales before they fire, you won't reflect it back to them (due to ping-pong) but will take the damage yourself, despite having your scales up.

Tankqull

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Glad ive always morphed to lethal arrow. I knew the bow changes would result in even more bows in cyrodil, but I didnt know they snuck in stacking heal debuff in 1.5, which is whack and needs immediate fix. Even without this i believe lethal arrow spam would just equate to death to your target, but whatevs... people of the bow will remain willfully ignorant of it in order to profit.

My 2h build is unusable so I'll be getting my lethal arrow kills until they fix it. Zos needs to stop releasing these major bugs every damn patch

it has not been snuked in thats what it was since release. but due to the hihg casting time the balistic flying curve the 4 sec duration of the debuff (tool tip info of 10 sec is as allways pure BS) doesent allowed its stacking normaly.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Ill add that lethal arrows seem to be intermittently unreflectable, without the attacker being stealthed, and when the do get reflected they dont always do damage. Will have to experiment more with that.

There's DK archers out there. If they activate their own Scales before they fire, you won't reflect it back to them (due to ping-pong) but will take the damage yourself, despite having your scales up.

I am also a dk archer so i know this. My report is from getting hit be another players bow attack while spamming scales.

Tankqull wrote: »

show previous quotes

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Glad ive always morphed to lethal arrow. I knew the bow changes would result in even more bows in cyrodil, but I didnt know they snuck in stacking heal debuff in 1.5, which is whack and needs immediate fix. Even without this i believe lethal arrow spam would just equate to death to your target, but whatevs... people of the bow will remain willfully ignorant of it in order to profit.

My 2h build is unusable so I'll be getting my lethal arrow kills until they fix it. Zos needs to stop releasing these major bugs every damn patch

it has not been snuked in thats what it was since release. but due to the hihg casting time the balistic flying curve the 4 sec duration of the debuff (tool tip info of 10 sec is as allways pure BS) doesent allowed its stacking normaly.

So youre going to tell me people are only just now calling this out, 7 months later? I dont think so. Ive been using bow and lethal arrow since 1.3 and it was not stacking. Reguardless of the longer cast and slower travel speeds, you could get successive hits on a target. I myseld have also been victim of lethal arrow spam, and as of 1.4 i could still heal myself while getting hit constantly. Just admit this is a serious bug of 1.5, not a since launch issue. If it stacked prior to, it would have been brought up constantly before 1.5.

Maulkin

Tankqull wrote: »

show previous quotes

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Glad ive always morphed to lethal arrow. I knew the bow changes would result in even more bows in cyrodil, but I didnt know they snuck in stacking heal debuff in 1.5, which is whack and needs immediate fix. Even without this i believe lethal arrow spam would just equate to death to your target, but whatevs... people of the bow will remain willfully ignorant of it in order to profit.

My 2h build is unusable so I'll be getting my lethal arrow kills until they fix it. Zos needs to stop releasing these major bugs every damn patch

it has not been snuked in thats what it was since release. but due to the hihg casting time the balistic flying curve the 4 sec duration of the debuff (tool tip info of 10 sec is as allways pure BS) doesent allowed its stacking normaly.

I will test to see if the debuff lasts only 4 secs. If it does last only 4 that's also a bug that needs to be fixed.

That said, it also stacks from multiple players. So if 2 players snipe-gank you, you will be at 0 heals instantly. So it becomes instantly noticable

Maulkin

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Ill add that lethal arrows seem to be intermittently unreflectable, without the attacker being stealthed, and when the do get reflected they dont always do damage. Will have to experiment more with that.

There's DK archers out there. If they activate their own Scales before they fire, you won't reflect it back to them (due to ping-pong) but will take the damage yourself, despite having your scales up.

I am also a dk archer so i know this. My report is from getting hit be another players bow attack while spamming scales.

Fair enough, I usually have that happen to me in lag. I see my effect up but the server has not registered it yet, so for like 1 sec after cast I can still get hit.

I haven't had it happen to me outside of lag yet.

Nijjion

Intended I'm guessing this has been said since release and not even been talked about or fixed yet.

Zenimax wants everyone to run purge of course.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Ill add that lethal arrows seem to be intermittently unreflectable, without the attacker being stealthed, and when the do get reflected they dont always do damage. Will have to experiment more with that.

There's DK archers out there. If they activate their own Scales before they fire, you won't reflect it back to them (due to ping-pong) but will take the damage yourself, despite having your scales up.

Looks like skills can only be reflected twice so if they shoot and you have reflect and they have reflect up, you will take the damage. Not sure if good or bad idea due to ping pong effect could go on then someone could eventually get 1 shot.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Ill add that lethal arrows seem to be intermittently unreflectable, without the attacker being stealthed, and when the do get reflected they dont always do damage. Will have to experiment more with that.

There's DK archers out there. If they activate their own Scales before they fire, you won't reflect it back to them (due to ping-pong) but will take the damage yourself, despite having your scales up.

I am also a dk archer so i know this. My report is from getting hit be another players bow attack while spamming scales.

Fair enough, I usually have that happen to me in lag. I see my effect up but the server has not registered it yet, so for like 1 sec after cast I can still get hit.

I haven't had it happen to me outside of lag yet.

The lag was particularly horrible yesterday, so maybe some checks on it today will show that it was lag.

Palidon

If you want to nerf anything then nerf Reflective Scales which reflects most ranged attacks to include Lethal Arrow. Is it fair to be able to use that? Quit crying about the Bow attack stack because there are several other skills in this game that stack and are being used quite often in PvP because of it. First you complainers cried about the Bow attack damage (So ZOS reduced it). Now this. Give me a break.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Palidon wrote: »

If you want to nerf anything then nerf Reflective Scales which reflects most ranged attacks to include Lethal Arrow. Is it fair to be able to use that? Quit crying about the Bow attack stack because there are several other skills in this game that stack and are being used quite often in PvP because of it. First you complainers cried about the Bow attack damage (So ZOS reduced it). Now this. Give me a break.

Nottodisu****toagen.jpg

Maulkin

Nijjion wrote: »

Intended I'm guessing this has been said since release and not even been talked about or fixed yet.

Zenimax wants everyone to run purge of course.

Many things have not been fixed yet, like cloak or impenetrable and others had been broken for months, like sharpened trait.

Something not fixed yet, does not mean its working as intended.

And needless to say the problem is more pronounced since update 1.5 and reduction of snipe cast-time. Before snipers would snipe once from stealth and use other attacks, like Venom Arrow, from then on. Thus you'd see less stacking.

Maulkin

Palidon wrote: »

If you want to nerf anything then nerf Reflective Scales which reflects most ranged attacks to include Lethal Arrow. Is it fair to be able to use that? Quit crying about the Bow attack stack because there are several other skills in this game that stack and are being used quite often in PvP because of it. First you complainers cried about the Bow attack damage (So ZOS reduced it). Now this. Give me a break.

Like? If there are several others it shouldn't be a problem offering one simle example, right?

krim

I have never seen it this bad to the point where my heals reach zero. I cleanse two or three times and its still zero.. lmao

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Lethal arrow spam was still happening in 1.4 with the first cast time reduction, by me as well. Never witnesses myself or others being unable to heal after taking 2 consecutive lethal arrows as in the video.

If its been going on since launch then why bother asking if its intended now? The answer would be yes because no one said anything until now and zos didn't bother to change it. Goes in hand with my post saying if you dont bring something to light, close to 100% of the time the devs will not bother it.

Maulkin

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Lethal arrow spam was still happening in 1.4 with the first cast time reduction, by me as well. Never witnesses myself or others being unable to heal after taking 2 consecutive lethal arrows as in the video.

If its been going on since launch then why bother asking if its intended now? The answer would be yes because no one said anything until now and zos didn't bother to change it. Goes in hand with my post saying if you dont bring something to light, close to 100% of the time the devs will not bother it.

There's so much wrong with the bolded part.

Like I said, it's far more noticeable now than before hence why people like me got intrigued and went out to test it. That's why I'm asking now.

Also you're ignoring the fact that any other debuff that stacked with itself, that ZOS knew about, got fixed so it doesn't. The fact ZOS didn't bother or didn't know does not mean it's intended.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

But no one brought it up. Its supposedly an exploit that stayed a secret for months. But i still dont belive it was happening before 1.5.

In 1.4 it was possible to get about 6 seconds of this 0% healing, if it were indeed possible to dp in 1.4. In 1.5 its possible to get about 8 seconds. People can only now bring this up because that 2 seconds longer time is the only thing that makes the effect noticeable? No i dont believe it was even happening prior to 1.5, because 6 seconds of 0% healing would have been pretty damn noticeable.

Columba

This is bad. Please fix this soon.