I don't like solo instances forced to scale up (from Update 5 PTS notes)

Holycannoli

(edited for clarity. My complaint is about it being forced vs being optional)

Solo Scaling

Solo instances will now scale to your level, with some caveats:
Solo instances do not scale below the level they are introduced. For example, Thizzrini Arena begins scaling from level 42.
Solo instances do not scale past Veteran Rank 12 at this time.
Solo scaling is determined by your level upon entering the instance, and remains there for the session.

This has been a bother in TES since Morrowind. I am not a fan of areas scaling to my level. I do not want instances in this game to scale up to my level. If I enter a solo instance 10 levels higher than the instance, then I expect to have an easier time completing it. I do not want it scaling to my level without my permission. I am much more a fan of areas being appropriate for certain levels. I mean would it make sense for the Freeport newbie yard in classic Everquest to scale up to my level 50 character?

Am I the only one who feels like this? I would not mind optional solo scaling, but highly mind forced solo scaling. It's often prudent to wait a few levels to do the main and mage's/fighter's guild quests so that you have a greater chance of success without dying. I've been doing that since early beta when pre-nerf Gutsripper roflstomped my two-handed summoning sorcerer (terrible build but it was experimentation time).

æxæ

I got no view on this but to agree to forced sucks. I'm already done with the solo part in this game so i'm not bothered but would actually like the option to scale all solo delves to my vr14 (v12 like they said). Yea, to be forced if you're not through with the content does suck, i feel ya.

Edit: btw, your forum name would have been my 2nd pick, love it.

dharbert

Solo scaling cannot work unless the dungeon/delve is instanced. For example, let's say that I'm in Auridon, and me and some other person enter a delve at the same time. I am VR8 and this other guy is L32. We are not grouped. Just two random players in the same delve at the same time. I am going to see each mob as VR8 and the other player is going to see the same mobs as being L32. How is that going to work? We are fighting the exact same mobs at the same exact time. The mobs can't be both L32 and VR8 at the same time.

Nox_Aeterna

Who knows , maybe at some point zen will actually start to give options instead of forced content , but i wouldnt count on it to happen any time soon.

Crescent

The real problem is you don't have enough reliable ways to experience some group content without massively outleveling.

My entire VR1-10 throughout the areas was soloed. I had to solo the VR 8-10 are public dungeons and dolmens as there's virtually nobody there because the rewards for any content outside Craglorn simply suck.

Holycannoli

dharbert wrote: »

Solo scaling cannot work unless the dungeon/delve is instanced. For example, let's say that I'm in Auridon, and me and some other person enter a delve at the same time. I am VR8 and this other guy is L32. We are not grouped. Just two random players in the same delve at the same time. I am going to see each mob as VR8 and the other player is going to see the same mobs as being L32. How is that going to work? We are fighting the exact same mobs at the same exact time. The mobs can't be both L32 and VR8 at the same time.

It specifically says solo instances so don't worry about that. Worry about them forcing those solo instances to scale to your level even if you don't want them to (like if you're like me and happy with how it is currently).

æxæ

I've tried using the pts right now to check the scaling and I can't even get pass the character creation screen. Each time i create a char it pushes me back to login screen "wait a few minutes" and no matter what i picked, like 1.5 Undaunted or 1.5 Veteran City of Ash, my char is level 1. lol? Sorry, cannot give you a feedback on that one now.

RSram

The VR solo dungeons are not that hard to begin with. The scaling will make soloing lower level public dungeon and bosses much more difficult, but I been soloing the VR public dungeon so far at VR5, dying once in a while, but completing the quest and getting the girl too.

Melko

I would like it best if it were optional. It was all quite fun with my first character, but playing with all the characters that followed was a boring mind numbing grind. Focefully scaling the solo content will make this even more of an ordeal. That's just how MMOs are.

Holycannoli

Ugh this game is not alt friendly at all. You want the shards? You gotta do all this crap all over again. It makes me sick just to think about collecting the cyrodiil shards again on alts. You want the skill points from some quests? You gotta basically re-quest every map. It's tedious to the extreme, so much so that my highest level alt is only level 10 because I can't stomach doing all this again.

(that speaks to the overall enjoyment of this game by the way, and one of my criticisms that this game focuses way too much on quests and not enough on traditional MMO gameplay)

Soloers have a method for soloing, and that usually includes slightly overleveling for the content they're doing. It ensures survivability and speed without compromising loot.

Plus no MMO I've ever played has used forced scaling. I actually can't think of one that does (can't even think of one that uses scaling at all). If they exist I haven't played them. They've all used the traditional system of level-appropriate areas, which I love. It's a system I've been familiar with since the 80s, from RPGs of almost 30 years ago. You start in the newbie areas, move on to low level areas, then mid level, then high level and finally end game. None of the areas scale to you, rather you move on to higher areas. That includes dungeons. Every MMO I've ever played has been like this, and almost every RPGs except for TES. And in TES it's always bothered the crap out of me that mobs and areas scale to your character. It impacts my enjoyment of the games.

If they go through with this and make it forced instead of optional I will have to seriously reconsider my commitment to this game. Everyone has their own reasons for not liking ESO, and my turning point will be when they start impacting solo play. This forced scaling does just that.

One of the mods please forward the suggestion to make this scaling optional. Some want it, some don't, and optional is the the only acceptable choice.

Holycannoli

By the way, I'm not talking about VR dungeons. I have no experience with them. I'm talking level 1-50 dungeons. Maybe VR dungeons are different and level scaling is a welcome addition, but for normal 1-50 dungeons it will make them a lot more difficult to do for the same reward. Who the hell wants that?

kimboh

Level scaling Only applies to instances.
Delves and public dungeons are Not instances.
Only group dungeon and solo quest instances like main story and Mage/fighters guild quests will scale to your level.

LonePirate

Forced scaling is yet another in a long line of questionable decisions that continues to illustrate ZOS' animosity towards the masses and masses of solo players who I verwhelmingly populate this game. ESO is nearly six months old and I am amazed ZOS is still so out of touch with the realities of the game and the needs/wants of their players.

lpool96

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Who knows , maybe at some point zen will actually start to give options instead of forced content , but i wouldnt count on it to happen any time soon.

They just gave us an option on the "Chat Bubbles" ^^

starkerealm

kimboh wrote: »

Level scaling Only applies to instances.
Delves and public dungeons are Not instances.
Only group dungeon and solo quest instances like main story and Mage/fighters guild quests will scale to your level.

I could have sworn reading that Delves would be instanced by level with this. Though, they could have been talking about the Craglorn "no really guys, honest, they're" delves.

Welka

Where's the challenge in waiting until you're 10 levels over the instance to complete it? I see scaling as a good thing

adriant1978

Welka wrote: »

Where's the challenge in waiting until you're 10 levels over the instance to complete it? I see scaling as a good thing

Some people need to out-level content or they won't get past it. Read the countless rage threads about "Halls of Torment".

crislevin

starkerealm wrote: »

kimboh wrote: »

Level scaling Only applies to instances.
Delves and public dungeons are Not instances.
Only group dungeon and solo quest instances like main story and Mage/fighters guild quests will scale to your level.

I could have sworn reading that Delves would be instanced by level with this. Though, they could have been talking about the Craglorn "no really guys, honest, they're" delves.

i went into a lot of solo and public dungeons, they are not scaled.

starkerealm

adriant1978 wrote: »

Welka wrote: »

Where's the challenge in waiting until you're 10 levels over the instance to complete it? I see scaling as a good thing

Some people need to out-level content or they won't get past it. Read the countless rage threads about "Halls of Torment".

I think the agree button is broken, I keep clicking but it doesn't go past 1.

Seriously though, especially for crap like Halls of Torment, where the entire fight can be either pathetically easy or keyboard breaking frustrating hinging on if you're a class with good AoE abilities, or just using negate magic. Scaling it needs to come with the ability to bring a friend or three in to help you.

I understand the idea that, "no, really, this is your story. No one else in the world is doing this." But, that fiction needs to also allow us to bring backup along, if we actually require help.

Sallington

*Since Oblivion

Morrowind didn't scale. Another reason why it's the best game ever made.

Holycannoli

kimboh wrote: »

Level scaling Only applies to instances.
Delves and public dungeons are Not instances.
Only group dungeon and solo quest instances like main story and Mage/fighters guild quests will scale to your level.

Wait delves are not instances? That's news to me. They're instanced to you and solo, so how are they not instances?

I'm not saying you're wrong, just wondering what's the truth here.

EDIT: Sorry I mean solo dungeons, the ones marked "solo dungeon" on the map (according to one of my addons at least). Maybe they aren't actually solo and I'm just never seeing anyone in them. All this time I thought they were solo-only instances.



I'm confused now (no longer, I just assumed they were solo instances because they're marked as solo on my map and I never see anyone else in them, ever)

If it means only main quest and mage guild / fighter guild quests and whatnot I'm still not happy. Those are quests I also purposely overlevel for, ever since the original Gustripper made mincemeat of my two-handed sorcerer back in beta.

Vyle_Byte

The forced scaling really blows. I pretty much hate it, and i love this game to death, been here since beta. Give us the option to turn scaling on or no. Don't force it. Especially with the new Undaunted dailies of which my husband and i were so excited for.

Welka wrote: »

Where's the challenge in waiting until you're 10 levels over the instance to complete it? I see scaling as a good thing

Sometimes you don't want the 'challenge' you just want to relax and play the game you love. Not everyone wants the 'challenge' of beating our keyboards to death to get through something. The thing is, they are catering towards the Elitist of the game rather than giving anything to the casual player.

When i played my first character... hes a 2H templar... i for the life of me could NOT beat some of the 'solo' content in the main story. I mean straight up couldn't do it, i watched my husband who was a night blade at the time breeze through it, but me... i tried and tried until i was p**** off and gave up. Had to come back to it levels later to get past it. That is not going to be an option now. Now instead of being able to come back to something that's too hard and frustrating, you'll just be stuck. 'So sorry, L2P' right?

Like i said, this scaling is so bad for the casual player and they really need to look into giving us the option to opt out of it. For your community ZOS. Do yourself a favor and listen to what your players are saying.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

dharbert wrote: »

Solo scaling cannot work unless the dungeon/delve is instanced. For example, let's say that I'm in Auridon, and me and some other person enter a delve at the same time. I am VR8 and this other guy is L32. We are not grouped. Just two random players in the same delve at the same time. I am going to see each mob as VR8 and the other player is going to see the same mobs as being L32. How is that going to work? We are fighting the exact same mobs at the same exact time. The mobs can't be both L32 and VR8 at the same time.

Not sure why you felt the need to waffle on about this, it's totally irrelevant here, ZOS clearly stated these are SOLO DUNGEONS, and gave the example of the arena in Reaper's March.

zhevon

There should be an option to scale or not on entering solo instances. If we have been there before and its been a disaster scaled, it would nice to be able to try it again unscaled. It will allow marginally competent or casual players not to get stuck.

starkerealm

Sallington wrote: »

*Since Oblivion

Morrowind didn't scale. Another reason why it's the best game ever made.

It actually did scale, it just wasn't very transparent or forgiving about it. Off hand Solstheim ran level 5-40, I think Mournhold ran 5-30, though it's been a long time.

The difference is Morrowind didn't equate "rare" with "high level." In Morrowind you'd never find swarms of bandits that were all in Ebony armor because that stuff was actually rare. Unlike Oblivion where the gear was much less of a coherent world and more of a progression scheme.

Gorthax

Holycannoli wrote: »

Ugh this game is not alt friendly at all. You want the shards? You gotta do all this crap all over again. It makes me sick just to think about collecting the cyrodiil shards again on alts. You want the skill points from some quests? You gotta basically re-quest every map. It's tedious to the extreme, so much so that my highest level alt is only level 10 because I can't stomach doing all this again.

I'm sorry, tell me again how you want everything unlocked just for starting a character. This game IS alt friendly. The content isn't hard and a freaking breeze to get through. Is this your first mmo lol Cuz it sure sounds like it there bud.

Audigy

Solo instances will now scale to your level, with some caveats:
Solo instances do not scale below the level they are introduced. For example, Thizzrini Arena begins scaling from level 42.
Solo instances do not scale past Veteran Rank 12 at this time.
Solo scaling is determined by your level upon entering the instance, and remains there for the session.

ZO will only add this for solo content, so that if you want to solo a group dungeon like going back to Banished Cells then this Dungeon is still 12-15.

The change will only take place in Solo dungeons, dungeons that you visit while being on your main quest or the Mages & Fighters guild. And lets face it, those are already easy if you are one or two levels below the mobs, so that there wont be any significant change in difficulty.

Dagoth_Rac

1). Content will scale to player's level
2). A player can be any level.
3). Therefore, content can scale to any level.

If content can scale to any level, just let me choose level! Or let group leader choose level!

On weekends, when I have lots of time, I want harder content. On weeknights, where I have limited play time, I might want to run Vet Spindle or Vet Wayrest just for fun. I don't want to turn them into VR14 content. And I don't want the hassle of finding an alt or guildie to start dungeon at level we want.

starkerealm

Audigy wrote: »

Solo instances will now scale to your level, with some caveats:
Solo instances do not scale below the level they are introduced. For example, Thizzrini Arena begins scaling from level 42.
Solo instances do not scale past Veteran Rank 12 at this time.
Solo scaling is determined by your level upon entering the instance, and remains there for the session.

ZO will only add this for solo content, so that if you want to solo a group dungeon like going back to Banished Cells then this Dungeon is still 12-15.

The change will only take place in Solo dungeons, dungeons that you visit while being on your main quest or the Mages & Fighters guild. And lets face it, those are already easy if you are one or two levels below the mobs, so that there wont be any significant change in difficulty.

No, it affects group content too. You should have looked at the patch notes.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Dungeon Scaling

• Dungeons will now scale to the level of the group leader, with some caveats:
  • Non-veteran dungeons will not scale below the level they are currently introduced, but will scale up to Veteran Rank 12.
  • All veteran dungeons (with the exception of Veteran City of Ash) are now available from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 12.
  • Dungeons will not scale up to Veteran Rank 13 and 14 at this time.
  • Dungeon scaling is determined by the group leader upon the group entering the dungeon. This scaling does not change if the level of the group leader does, or if the group leader changes, once the dungeon has been set.
  • Item drops will also scale up either to the level of the monster or the receiving player character, whichever is lower.
    • For example, a level 28 monster is defeated, dropping an item for a level 26 player character and a level 30 player character. The item levels will be 26 and 28, respectively.

If you are in a group of 1, you are the group leader. No going back to do Banished Cells by yourself at its original level, sorry.

Audigy

starkerealm wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Solo instances will now scale to your level, with some caveats:
Solo instances do not scale below the level they are introduced. For example, Thizzrini Arena begins scaling from level 42.
Solo instances do not scale past Veteran Rank 12 at this time.
Solo scaling is determined by your level upon entering the instance, and remains there for the session.

ZO will only add this for solo content, so that if you want to solo a group dungeon like going back to Banished Cells then this Dungeon is still 12-15.

The change will only take place in Solo dungeons, dungeons that you visit while being on your main quest or the Mages & Fighters guild. And lets face it, those are already easy if you are one or two levels below the mobs, so that there wont be any significant change in difficulty.

No, it affects group content too. You should have looked at the patch notes.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Dungeon Scaling

• Dungeons will now scale to the level of the group leader, with some caveats:
  • Non-veteran dungeons will not scale below the level they are currently introduced, but will scale up to Veteran Rank 12.
  • All veteran dungeons (with the exception of Veteran City of Ash) are now available from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 12.
  • Dungeons will not scale up to Veteran Rank 13 and 14 at this time.
  • Dungeon scaling is determined by the group leader upon the group entering the dungeon. This scaling does not change if the level of the group leader does, or if the group leader changes, once the dungeon has been set.
  • Item drops will also scale up either to the level of the monster or the receiving player character, whichever is lower.
    • For example, a level 28 monster is defeated, dropping an item for a level 26 player character and a level 30 player character. The item levels will be 26 and 28, respectively.

If you are in a group of 1, you are the group leader. No going back to do Banished Cells by yourself at its original level, sorry.

Hmm, this doesn't sound pretty at all then.

Now I wonder, if I lets say decide at level 40 that I want to do these Banished Cells, how am I supposed to find a group? The finder will not let me queue for obvious reasons.

Nestor

Holycannoli wrote: »

This has been a bother in TES since Morrowind.

Morrowind did not have level scaled dungeons, they were fixed in level. It was Oblivion that introduced this.

Now, back to the OP, I am not sure I like this. If I enter a solo dungeon I expect others to be in there. So, how is this going to work if I am at L42 and others are at L12 or L18? Who are the mobs scaled to then?

Or, does this only apply to the "Solo Only" dungeons that are part of the MQ/Faction Quests?

@ZOS_GinaBruno can we get clarification on this, what is meant by Solo?