Here's how ESO's 3rdperson camera SHOULD be adjustable to look.

Attorneyatlawl

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ and crew .

So I've asked for adjustments to be allowed to the 3rd-person camera with sliders in the options menu similar to how first-person received a Field of View slider recently, since as early as July of last year. When it has been brought up, either by people it affects severely due to health issues, or for me for example where it's just awkward feeling and inhibits gameplay being tight into the character, a lot of people don't seem to get what exactly is being asked about on the forums, and it seems there is a bit of misinformation surrounding what is being asked about.

Let me illustrate with photos thanks to an open-source tool called esomod that allows you to manually edit max zoom, 3rd-person fov, and remove the fog (similar to what Sorien's esolauncher over at tamriel foundry does). Please note I do NOT normally play with this tool as I have no idea if it falls inside of the TOS or not being a third-party program and thus have not been able to do so.



Default zoom is 10.0 maximum, and 45 vertical FOV. Note how it is fairly off-center with the character far below, and somewhat to the left of the actual screen center (the crosshair) and the view is constricted which makes for awkward motion:



Here is the same max zoom, but with a 52 vertical FOV which more closely matches a 16:9 aspect ratio LCD screen (close to what most games use by default). Notice that you can see a bit more to your sides and it feels less like you have blinders on:



Now here's a higher maximum zoom by 35% more (13.5) with the proper 52 vertical FOV. This allows you to get the crosshair almost centered over the character's head, has smoother movement and allows you to see a bit more of your surroundings in a reasonable fashion (the original beta clients allowed for almost this zoom level but not this FOV):



Finally, here's a more extreme zoom distance example that games like WOW, RIFT, Warhammer, etc. allowed for as a maximum, again with 52 vertical FOV set for a proper aspect ratio of camera to 16:9 screen:


Personally I wouldn't play that far out if given the option, probably . But as you can see between these different picture examples, the game can very easily have its camera allowed to be centered making for more natural motion and less clunkiness, and a higher FOV (similar to what they have now put a slider in for 1st-person only) can help alleviate the constrictedness of the camera view. The max zoom distance allows you to not have motion as close to the frustum of your camera and would help alleviate motion sickness for those who suffer from it, as well as a little more situational awareness (this is what was allowed for back during beta, except the last screenshot which is further out).

In short, ZOS, please for those of us who like camera options to play comfortably, or for others who have health issues in general related to the limited camera settings in this game, allow the following:

-Adjustable camera Field of Vision setting in third-person mode.
-A slider allowing you to set what you want your maximum zoom distance to be, clamped to a standard appropriate value (I would put forward the 13.5 number as a reasonable one for example).
-A toggle to either have the camera over the shoulder on the right (default currently), centered above your character's head, or over the shoulder on the left.
-A camera "height" adjustment as to how far below the crosshair your character is located on your screen.

These options would provide for better comfort and control for everyone, and are preference options that would not force anything on anyone who enjoys the camera as-is.

TheSojourner

I'm all for more options.

However, I'm more concerned about your UI. Good god, I'm so glad that's not default. Looks like a WoW mod or something.

Sallington

Do. Want.

Going to be messing with this tool over the weekend for sure.

Potenza

More options to adjust the camera would be great. I have always found 3rd person difficult to play in ESO because of the "off-centeredness" of the character. I did notice though as I zoom out, the character comes closer to center - but the camera ends up too far away.

Ziz

It was total and utter *** when it was changed in beta. I think the developers are [SNIP] for forcing us to play this way.

I honestly think the ESO devs are the worst of any game I've played. This is just one example of the horse *** changes they've made.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Circuitous

In addition to higher zoom, I'd super appreciate if they brought over camera controls like Tera had. You could set binds to bump the camera right, left, up, or down several clicks. So, you could set the camera higher over your head, all the way down to your feet, and either center the character or go to extremes on the left or right side. It was great.

technohic

Yes. Want. Please.

Attorneyatlawl

Circuitous wrote: »

In addition to higher zoom, I'd super appreciate if they brought over camera controls like Tera had. You could set binds to bump the camera right, left, up, or down several clicks. So, you could set the camera higher over your head, all the way down to your feet, and either center the character or go to extremes on the left or right side. It was great.

That sounds absolutely sublime.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

what addon is that minimap? That looks wonderful.

Attorneyatlawl

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

what addon is that minimap? That looks wonderful.

The addon is "ZR Minimap" which has been updated by Fyrakin since the original author quit. You can get the new versions here on ESO UI : http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info605-ZrMiniMap-Updated.html He's done a great job of improving it and adding customization over time. It's fully resizeable and can be reshaped, can be zoomed in/out with the mouse wheel, and allows for a bunch of other options to make it look how you want.

Drazhar14

Over the shoulder/camera directly behind character toggle in the option menu would be nice. I hate zooming in to have my camera shift to the side.

Smiteye

Make it so!

SFBryan18

I'm more interested in the 3rd person camera being centered when close up and also dropped down a little.

Attorneyatlawl

SFBryan18 wrote: »

I'm more interested in the 3rd person camera being centered when close up and also dropped down a little.

Yep, I want all of these options available so you can do what you want, I can do what I want, etc. .

Abagaile

I play in third person and also enjoy doing Trials. Currently in Trials, when zoomed out and trying to get my retical within the targeting box on some mobs, it greatly reduces my ability to view ground effects that are a basic part of the fight mechanics.

If you're allowing third person, please adjust allow the player to select a camera view that would be more comfortable to play during PVP/PVE.

The enjoyment and challenge of the game should be based on the fight mechanics, not the limits of the UI.

Xau

Yup, options for camera position would be a great addition to the game. Having played at a slight zoom and thus having my character slightly off center since beta I'm totally used to it now... but I remember how awkward it felt at first.

DaGhostDS

They dont exactly need to have a Zenimax version of it if the API would be able to support Camera variable changes.

GnatB

Curious, I tend to be of the opinion that the biggest mistake ZoS made with this game was *having* a 3rd person mode. TES has always been pretty first person centric.

And there are already tons of 3rd person MMORPG's out there. Don't *really* need another one. But, adding 3rd person mode means the game presumably had to be developed largely around 3rd person. Or it probably would have been too easy. 3rd person gives you a LOT more information than in 1st. And you want to make it that much more informative. You think it's hard seeing the red danger zones in 3rd person without zooming out farther? Just try it in first person.

Attorneyatlawl

GnatB wrote: »

Curious, I tend to be of the opinion that the biggest mistake ZoS made with this game was *having* a 3rd person mode. TES has always been pretty first person centric.

And there are already tons of 3rd person MMORPG's out there. Don't *really* need another one. But, adding 3rd person mode means the game presumably had to be developed largely around 3rd person. Or it probably would have been too easy. 3rd person gives you a LOT more information than in 1st. And you want to make it that much more informative. You think it's hard seeing the red danger zones in 3rd person without zooming out farther? Just try it in first person.

1st-person mode originally wasn't in the game even this game was designed around 3rd-person which is the standard camera angle for any MMORPG. The problem with first-person mode is what you said: it's too constricted a view for competitive mass-scale battles. While ESO does bear the "Elder Scrolls" name, it was designed as an elder scrolls MMO, not an elder scrolls game that happens to have online play. Finally, this is about comfort (and even motion sickness for some) and gameplay, not first-person view and its inherent restrictions. I agree with @Abagaile that the UI and camera should not be part of the difficulty of the game. The actual gameplay should be the challenge.

Smiteye

battleofficerb16_ESO wrote: »

They dont exactly need to have a Zenimax version of it if the API would be able to support Camera variable changes.

True, but considering zeni has already added ones for firstperson, I dont think it is out of scope for them to fix thirdperson now too at all.

heyguyslol

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ and crew .

So I've asked for adjustments to be allowed to the 3rd-person camera with sliders in the options menu similar to how first-person received a Field of View slider recently, since as early as July of last year. When it has been brought up, either by people it affects severely due to health issues, or for me for example where it's just awkward feeling and inhibits gameplay being tight into the character, a lot of people don't seem to get what exactly is being asked about on the forums, and it seems there is a bit of misinformation surrounding what is being asked about.

Let me illustrate with photos thanks to an open-source tool called esomod that allows you to manually edit max zoom, 3rd-person fov, and remove the fog (similar to what Sorien's esolauncher over at tamriel foundry does). Please note I do NOT normally play with this tool as I have no idea if it falls inside of the TOS or not being a third-party program and thus have not been able to do so.



Default zoom is 10.0 maximum, and 45 vertical FOV. Note how it is fairly off-center with the character far below, and somewhat to the left of the actual screen center (the crosshair) and the view is constricted which makes for awkward motion:



Here is the same max zoom, but with a 52 vertical FOV which more closely matches a 16:9 aspect ratio LCD screen (close to what most games use by default). Notice that you can see a bit more to your sides and it feels less like you have blinders on:



Now here's a higher maximum zoom by 35% more (13.5) with the proper 52 vertical FOV. This allows you to get the crosshair almost centered over the character's head, has smoother movement and allows you to see a bit more of your surroundings in a reasonable fashion (the original beta clients allowed for almost this zoom level but not this FOV):



Finally, here's a more extreme zoom distance example that games like WOW, RIFT, Warhammer, etc. allowed for as a maximum, again with 52 vertical FOV set for a proper aspect ratio of camera to 16:9 screen:


Personally I wouldn't play that far out if given the option, probably . But as you can see between these different picture examples, the game can very easily have its camera allowed to be centered making for more natural motion and less clunkiness, and a higher FOV (similar to what they have now put a slider in for 1st-person only) can help alleviate the constrictedness of the camera view. The max zoom distance allows you to not have motion as close to the frustum of your camera and would help alleviate motion sickness for those who suffer from it, as well as a little more situational awareness (this is what was allowed for back during beta, except the last screenshot which is further out).

In short, ZOS, please for those of us who like camera options to play comfortably, or for others who have health issues in general related to the limited camera settings in this game, allow the following:

-Adjustable camera Field of Vision setting in third-person mode.
-A slider allowing you to set what you want your maximum zoom distance to be, clamped to a standard appropriate value (I would put forward the 13.5 number as a reasonable one for example).
-A toggle to either have the camera over the shoulder on the right (default currently), centered above your character's head, or over the shoulder on the left.
-A camera "height" adjustment as to how far below the crosshair your character is located on your screen.

These options would provide for better comfort and control for everyone, and are preference options that would not force anything on anyone who enjoys the camera as-is.

I would love for Zos to increase camera zoom in 3rd person. The current camera limits are horrible and is one of the reasons I die so much because I can't see that much whats behind me and the Freelook in this game is absolutely horrible.

Attorneyatlawl

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

I would love for Zos to increase camera zoom in 3rd person. The current camera limits are horrible and is one of the reasons I die so much because I can't see that much whats behind me and the Freelook in this game is absolutely horrible.

The camera limits are very restrictive and offer just this side of nothing for customization yeah. Free look often turns my character to where I looked, when letting go of it, to boot... particularly when mounted.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

I've no problem with the zoom distance, but the off center you character is when you zoom in really bugs me, I would like to play like half zoomed in from max distance, but with my char in the center, not awkwardly to the left

Attorneyatlawl

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

I've no problem with the zoom distance, but the off center you character is when you zoom in really bugs me, I would like to play like half zoomed in from max distance, but with my char in the center, not awkwardly to the left

And I'd like to play with it about 60% higher than it is maximum now.... and centered . WTB camera options 2m gold, pst.

reagen_lionel

I actually have no problem wtiht he 3rd person view. Granted Im one of the people that plays Skyrim ( and most of Oblivion ) in 3rd person as well.

butterfly442

Picture/video instead of wall of text.

Attorneyatlawl

butterfly442 wrote: »

Picture/video instead of wall of text.

Um... the original post has several pictures illustrating every suggestion outlined.

butterfly442

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

butterfly442 wrote: »

Picture/video instead of wall of text.

Um... the original post has several pictures illustrating every suggestion outlined.

Nope. No pictures/videos/links for me in the OP.

I must be doing something right.

Attorneyatlawl

butterfly442 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

butterfly442 wrote: »

Picture/video instead of wall of text.

Um... the original post has several pictures illustrating every suggestion outlined.

Nope. No pictures/videos/links for me in the OP.

I must be doing something right.

Alright, let me link them for you then directly... because they are in-line as pictures right now that can be clicked for larger versions in the OP .

Default zoom is 10.0 maximum, and 45 vertical FOV
http://i.imgur.com/2eZDc5u.jpg


Same max zoom but higher vFOV (52) providing a more accurate 16:9 screen ratio vision field for the camera
http://i.imgur.com/PRJTNP3.jpg


35% higher maximum zoom + the higher vFOV (52), close to what the beta allowed for prior to an arbitrary, patchnote-less change
http://i.imgur.com/jYUmQ25.jpg


A more extreme example, 85% higher zoom which is a bit further than I'd personally want to play at but illustrates camera centering and what it would look like:
http://i.imgur.com/W3xwXTv.jpg

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mutharex

TheSojourner wrote: »

I'm all for more options.

However, I'm more concerned about your UI. Good god, I'm so glad that's not default. Looks like a WoW mod or something.

One more reason to ignore the rest of the post....

astrid81132

I can't stand how 3rd person view is in this game
The first thing I looked for in settings was a way to adjust the camera