One or two healers per group?

TeraAngelos

Should a typical 4-man veteran dungeon group makeup be two DPS, one healer, and one tank, or one DPS, two healers (or a healer and a DPS/heals hybrid), and one tank? Explanation:

Yesterday I ran veteran Spindleclutch. The group makeup: a v12 healer, a v5 tank, a v6 DPS (usually heals, but DPS for this run), and a v12 DPS (me). Spindleclutch is v1-v5, you'd think the run would be no issue. Heh.

By the time we'd gotten barely past the first mob, we were wiping on trash mobs (not every time, but more than I'd have expected). The healer claimed she'd been stunned and was unable to heal. She had no idea that the game had a stun break. Also, she seemed to be using exclusively, or almost exclusively, Templar healing skills rather than resto staff healing skills. The v6 DPS ended up switching back and forth between DPS and healing for the rest of the dungeon, and we finished without further issues.

It sparked the discussion, though, of whether or not this was normal. The healer and the tank claimed that 4-man dungeon groups should have two healers to prevent the wiping. The other DPS and I thought that 4-man dungeon groups should only need one healer. I have never had problems with only one healer; I've rarely wiped except in cases of mistakes (someone pulled early, messed up managing boss mechanics, etc.). As a DPS I do have resto staff on my off bar, but I got it for use in Cyrodiil, and the only time I've had to use it in dungeons was to help out a too-low-level healer once.

So have I gotten lucky in never needing more than one healer until yesterday? Or should a 4-man group only need one, and the other guys have just been unlucky? To clarify, I understand that having more heals translates to less wipes. The question is, is it necessary?

A disclaimer: I've never run a full healer. I don't know enough about it to argue for or against any healer's build.

nerevarine1138

If the healer isn't getting out of stuns (what are they using their stamina for if not blocking/stun-breaks?), then that's a playstyle problem. This isn't other MMOs. Healers can't just stand in one spot and spam the same spells over and over again.

I've run VR Crypt of Hearts with only one healer, so I'm fairly certain that you don't need a hybrid in the group to make it workable.

TeraAngelos

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

If the healer isn't getting out of stuns (what are they using their stamina for if not blocking/stun-breaks?), then that's a playstyle problem. This isn't other MMOs. Healers can't just stand in one spot and spam the same spells over and over again.

I've run VR Crypt of Hearts with only one healer, so I'm fairly certain that you don't need a hybrid in the group to make it workable.

Thanks for the input! I've only played the first few vet dungeons (BC, FG, Spindle, and WS), wasn't sure if it might be different by Crypt of Hearts.

traigusb14_ESO2

Nothing wrong with just templar heals either. My temp heals all the time. Has like 5 skill in resto from books. Temmplars do have some mana regen issues, so usually a group has to not sprint through dungeon.

Possible someone wasn't blocking when they needed too etc. as well.

If you have 2 healers, usually they are halving as DPS, so it is pretty much like having 1 healer.

Having 1 resto and 1 temp healer can really up the variety of buffs, heals and spells that can be used on different bosses.

Thralgaf

Like it or not, a Templar with resto and Templar heals will perform better. Don't hate me, hate the game design. For the hundredth time, as it is now, Templar heals alone are NOT MAJICKA FRIENDLY. They just aren't, period, end of story.

nerevarine1138

Thralgaf wrote: »

Like it or not, a Templar with resto and Templar heals will perform better. Don't hate me, hate the game design. For the hundredth time, as it is now, Templar heals alone are NOT MAJICKA FRIENDLY. They just aren't, period, end of story.

No one was asking for you to make inaccurate statements about whether any class can heal (they all can). Each class brings different benefits/drawbacks of their own to the table as healers.

Thralgaf

Yes, any class can heal. You are absolutely correct. My point is a Templar using only Templar heals isn't as effective as a Templar using resto + restoring light. How is that inaccurate?

Thralgaf

To clarify, my point is a Templar using resto and restoring light would also only take up one group spot in the above scenario, allowing for one more dps.

crislevin

somebody other than tank and healer should have an off hand heal. There are some mechanics in game practically demand that.

e.g., when healer get turn into a skeleton; when healer get wrapped up in a bubble; when healer get throw into a separate place.

Beside these, its always better to be prepared, vet dungeons demand a lot on healers.

Lynx7386

I find that I experience smoother runs with a 1 tank / 1 healer / 2 dps group makeup, where one of the two DPS players is capable of offhealing/backup healing. This can be achieved either through abilities (like a templar DPS with some heals slotted, or a nightblade DPS using funnel health/sap essence), or by that DPS player having a restoration staff on their secondary weapon bar.

Some of the encounters in this game simply have too much damage for a single healer to deal with, or require groups to spread out too much for the aoe targetted heals to function efficiently. Backup healing always makes things easier.

Jice

Healing is not a healers job alone. Same goes for tanks and tanking and DPS and DPSing.

Groups are small for a reason. Because overall strategy is what wins you the day in a vet dungeon not being good at one thing.

Healers need to have some DPS on one of their hot bars when things need to be burned fast. DPS need to add defenses to their hot bars like Evasion or Immovable. And tanks can't just rely on a healers heals to stay alive, they should be using anything they can to help the healing process, Entropy is available to everyone so there's no excuses if they don't like their class heals. Though Dragon blood, Strife, Winged Twilight, And Rushed Ceremony are all pretty good at helping things along too.

Healer: 80% heals, 20% DPS
Tank: 50% Defense, 30% DPS, 20% Heals
DPS: 80% DPS, 20% keeping your own tail alive.

If anyone sticks to 100% their own thing, it's setting the group up for up for failure.

A DPS that spams Pulsar is always worse than a DPS that spams pulsar with Immovable up.

Thralgaf

Which takes things back to my original point (I guess)-a Templar using restoring light + resto staff sets the group up for an additional dps slot. I can't imagine taking down some of the pure dps race vet scenarios running two healers.

TeraAngelos

Jice wrote: »

Healing is not a healers job alone. Same goes for tanks and tanking and DPS and DPSing...

Healer: 80% heals, 20% DPS
Tank: 50% Defense, 30% DPS, 20% Heals
DPS: 80% DPS, 20% keeping your own tail alive.

If anyone sticks to 100% their own thing, it's setting the group up for up for failure.

This makes most sense to me. I've never thought that any of the trinity roles should be 100% (everybody has at least some self heals); what I was wondering is if you needed more than one dedicated healer. Seems like the answer is usually no - supposing that not only is your healer a competent healer, but that the DPS and tank aren't doing dumb stuff either and can keep themselves alive at least in a fix.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Some of the encounters in this game simply have too much damage for a single healer to deal with, or require groups to spread out too much for the aoe targetted heals to function efficiently. Backup healing always makes things easier.

Agreed. In my example, though, we were having issues with trash mobs... which in my opinion shouldn't be one of the encounters where two healers is helpful. Then again, I also tend to assume that people understand to at least block heavy attacks, not stand on red ground, and take out enemy healers first, but this assumption is often too kind!

UrQuan

crislevin wrote: »

somebody other than tank and healer should have an off hand heal. There are some mechanics in game practically demand that.

e.g., when healer get turn into a skeleton;

Oh man, I recently did a dungeon where 2 of us, including our healer, got turned into skeletons. I was tanking. It's a damn good thing I could do some decent self-healing. Actually, that was a really fun dungeon run with a good group.

Magdalina

Kind of a late response, but why not.
One healer - one GOOD healer, at least - a group is typically enough. One GOOD healer in one GOOD group. Problems start if either group or healer aren't very good, or just don't work together very well for some reason - then you might get too much damage to be healed, or healer might not heal it in time.

That said, off heals are still a GREAT thing. I'm a sorc healer and I like to think I'm pretty good, but off heals(one of my favourite dps is a sorc usually running resto staff with Mutagen for heals and class skills for dps) can go a long way to helping me - and all of us - in tight spots, especially seeing sometimes healer might be unbreakably stunned/rooted/whatever. I don't think that's absolutely necessary though. Also, self heals are great. Alas, us sorcs lack these somewhat, which is another reason why that dps likes resto staff.

On the other hand, in very good groups your main healer might actually have enough time and magicka to dps=P Did that in Wayrest/DC vet dungeons some, pretty fun.

zgrssd

Two tanks or two healers is one DPS to few.
The tanks job is to take the toughest foes not in CC on himself and redirect thier AoE so they do as little group damage as possible.
The DPS job is to kill the weak foes first (Healers>Summoners>Elemental ranged DPS>Bow ranged DPS>Melee DPS>Boss) so the total group DPS becomes out-healable.
Healers job is to keep group alive.

This was simply a fault of the healer player. What you described is just the worst possible lack of healer skill I can immagine. So much it makes me wonder if that might have been some form of greifing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer#Methods
It sounds like "faking extreme incompetence" case for me.

I cannot believe that person really made it to VR level without being told how to properly heal at least once (and there is a freaking screen hint for CC breakout!).
If I meet a person like this and he does not shows sign of actually wanting to improove I would even consider reporting that person for greifing.
Sorry, but the average MMO player is not that stupid. That is meerely a lie made by the greifers to hide thier intentional sabotage behind "plausible stupidity".
If somebody thinks he can get away with annoying me by that obviously playing dumb, we are going to have an issue.

VR content is hard enough as it is. Don't need people sabotaging me too.

Inversus

TeraAngelos wrote: »

The healer claimed she'd been stunned and was unable to heal. She had no idea that the game had a stun break.

She seems inexperienced then, which may have been the issue

TeraAngelos wrote: »

Also, she seemed to be using exclusively, or almost exclusively, Templar healing skills rather than resto staff healing skills.

As a sorc healer I can't really comment on this, but usually templar healers also use resto staff

zgrssd

Inversus wrote: »

TeraAngelos wrote: »

The healer claimed she'd been stunned and was unable to heal. She had no idea that the game had a stun break.

She seems inexperienced then, which may have been the issue

V12 and "inexperienced with role" just don't belong into the same sentence.

It is too unlikely that this player has never seen another templar healer, never having been comented on about a templar only healing or never read a discussion about healing as templer in the 48 normal + 12 Vet Levels you need to get to there.
That is why I would have asumed this to be either a greifing attempt or somebody who really should have stayed out of Veteran dungeons.
I don't mind being first time to dungeon, but failing at fundemantals on this level is just acceptable behavior in endgame. If they want to start learning by wiping that late, they should really not waste my time while doing so. Vet dungeosn are hard enough without one player sabotaging the whole effort.

Inversus wrote: »

TeraAngelos wrote: »

Also, she seemed to be using exclusively, or almost exclusively, Templar healing skills rather than resto staff healing skills.

As a sorc healer I can't really comment on this, but usually templar healers also use resto staff

As a general rule, resto staff heals are energy efficient.
Nothing is better at burst healing then the Templar skills (and he has the only pure healing ultimate), but for everyday PvE using resto staff is the way to go. It just offers the superior mana/health ratio via it's HoT's. And it still has an emergency heal (the shield).
Templar healing skills exclusively will result in one thing and one thing only:
Out of mana.

Anastasia

Magdalina wrote: »

Kind of a late response, but why not.
One healer - one GOOD healer, at least - a group is typically enough. One GOOD healer in one GOOD group. Problems start if either group or healer aren't very good, or just don't work together very well for some reason - then you might get too much damage to be healed, or healer might not heal it in time.

That said, off heals are still a GREAT thing. I'm a sorc healer and I like to think I'm pretty good, but off heals(one of my favourite dps is a sorc usually running resto staff with Mutagen for heals and class skills for dps) can go a long way to helping me - and all of us - in tight spots, especially seeing sometimes healer might be unbreakably stunned/rooted/whatever. I don't think that's absolutely necessary though. Also, self heals are great. Alas, us sorcs lack these somewhat, which is another reason why that dps likes resto staff.

On the other hand, in very good groups your main healer might actually have enough time and magicka to dps=P Did that in Wayrest/DC vet dungeons some, pretty fun.

---

Yup. That reason primarily being not ENOUGH GROUPING TO LEARN IN PRIOR TO. Cradle to Vet+ content solo-centric does NOT a solid group role make. Period. And these discussions SHOULD be being made in that PRIOR grouping content, ergo prepping players to be ready for the PvE role they are expected to fulfill.

Inversus

zgrssd wrote: »

Inversus wrote: »

TeraAngelos wrote: »

The healer claimed she'd been stunned and was unable to heal. She had no idea that the game had a stun break.

She seems inexperienced then, which may have been the issue

V12 and "inexperienced with role" just don't belong into the same sentence.

It is too unlikely that this player has never seen another templar healer, never having been comented on about a templar only healing or never read a discussion about healing as templer in the 48 normal + 12 Vet Levels you need to get to there.
That is why I would have asumed this to be either a greifing attempt or somebody who really should have stayed out of Veteran dungeons.
I don't mind being first time to dungeon, but failing at fundemantals on this level is just acceptable behavior in endgame. If they want to start learning by wiping that late, they should really not waste my time while doing so. Vet dungeosn are hard enough without one player sabotaging the whole effort.

True, if they are that inexperienced by VR12 it's likely just a troll or something
Although it could be someone who gave their acc away to a friend or for money or something like that, resulting in a new player at endgame - who knows

zgrssd wrote: »

Inversus wrote: »

TeraAngelos wrote: »

Also, she seemed to be using exclusively, or almost exclusively, Templar healing skills rather than resto staff healing skills.

As a sorc healer I can't really comment on this, but usually templar healers also use resto staff

As a general rule, resto staff heals are energy efficient.
Nothing is better at burst healing then the Templar skills (and he has the only pure healing ultimate), but for everyday PvE using resto staff is the way to go. It just offers the superior mana/health ratio via it's HoT's. And it still has an emergency heal (the shield).
Templar healing skills exclusively will result in one thing and one thing only:
Out of mana.

Yeah from my experience with templar healers they heal far faster than me, but I gather that they can't use their abilities very often.
Whereas with my sorc I just spam resto heals - when I run out of magicka I just use dark exchange hehehe...
I've never seen a healer without a resto staff.

Phantax

I'm not a fan of the current 4 man system we have, but as it's what we are stuck with I'd rather go into a dungeon with a Tank, Healer, DPS and a Hybrid (dps/heal)
But then I would say that as I'm a hybrid...lol

Anastasia

Inversus wrote: »

zgrssd wrote: »

Inversus wrote: »

TeraAngelos wrote: »

The healer claimed she'd been stunned and was unable to heal. She had no idea that the game had a stun break.

She seems inexperienced then, which may have been the issue

V12 and "inexperienced with role" just don't belong into the same sentence.

It is too unlikely that this player has never seen another templar healer, never having been comented on about a templar only healing or never read a discussion about healing as templer in the 48 normal + 12 Vet Levels you need to get to there.
That is why I would have asumed this to be either a greifing attempt or somebody who really should have stayed out of Veteran dungeons.
I don't mind being first time to dungeon, but failing at fundemantals on this level is just acceptable behavior in endgame. If they want to start learning by wiping that late, they should really not waste my time while doing so. Vet dungeosn are hard enough without one player sabotaging the whole effort.

True, if they are that inexperienced by VR12 it's likely just a troll or something
Although it could be someone who gave their acc away to a friend or for money or something like that, resulting in a new player at endgame - who knows

zgrssd wrote: »

Inversus wrote: »

TeraAngelos wrote: »

Also, she seemed to be using exclusively, or almost exclusively, Templar healing skills rather than resto staff healing skills.

As a sorc healer I can't really comment on this, but usually templar healers also use resto staff

As a general rule, resto staff heals are energy efficient.
Nothing is better at burst healing then the Templar skills (and he has the only pure healing ultimate), but for everyday PvE using resto staff is the way to go. It just offers the superior mana/health ratio via it's HoT's. And it still has an emergency heal (the shield).
Templar healing skills exclusively will result in one thing and one thing only:
Out of mana.

Yeah from my experience with templar healers they heal far faster than me, but I gather that they can't use their abilities very often.
Whereas with my sorc I just spam resto heals - when I run out of magicka I just use dark exchange hehehe...
I've never seen a healer without a resto staff.

---

Good points Inversus.

I find that hard to believe though>>> " I've never seen a healer without a resto staff."<<<<<<

Have you stood by the gates where the line is forming during these last several weeks from players (*many of whom are NOT MMO veterans) who are now sailing up through the nerfed Vet content on their happy lil' solo PvE paths? If you haven't, you WILL.

traigusb14_ESO2

zgrssd wrote: »

Inversus wrote: »

TeraAngelos wrote: »

The healer claimed she'd been stunned and was unable to heal. She had no idea that the game had a stun break.

She seems inexperienced then, which may have been the issue

V12 and "inexperienced with role" just don't belong into the same sentence.

It is too unlikely that this player has never seen another templar healer, never having been comented on about a templar only healing or never read a discussion about healing as templer in the 48 normal + 12 Vet Levels you need to get to there.
That is why I would have asumed this to be either a greifing attempt or somebody who really should have stayed out of Veteran dungeons.
I don't mind being first time to dungeon, but failing at fundemantals on this level is just acceptable behavior in endgame. If they want to start learning by wiping that late, they should really not waste my time while doing so. Vet dungeosn are hard enough without one player sabotaging the whole effort.

Inversus wrote: »

TeraAngelos wrote: »

Also, she seemed to be using exclusively, or almost exclusively, Templar healing skills rather than resto staff healing skills.

As a sorc healer I can't really comment on this, but usually templar healers also use resto staff

As a general rule, resto staff heals are energy efficient.
Nothing is better at burst healing then the Templar skills (and he has the only pure healing ultimate), but for everyday PvE using resto staff is the way to go. It just offers the superior mana/health ratio via it's HoT's. And it still has an emergency heal (the shield).
Templar healing skills exclusively will result in one thing and one thing only:
Out of mana.

Not if the group is used to Templar healing (which very few are). Templar ground heal is pretty efficient if people will stand/ move around in it. People soloing in groups will tend not to be healed.

Spamming the big emergency heal will OOM you, but if you are spamming it, you are dumb or your group is.

I do not own a stick (of either type) or a dress.

I have healed all VR dungeons except CoH with a heavy armor temp. Not so much with PUGs, where I'll usually tank. Healing a herd of cats that only know about staff spam healing, and very little about grouping in general does not appeal to me.

Yes, temps could use more mana regen. I often need 20 secs between fights to get back to full, so we don't sprint the dungeons. But You can heal non-idiots with just Temp heals.

eliisra

You shouldn't need 2 healers. But if the group is shaky, I see nothing wrong with one dps using a resto staff to support when it gets heal heavy. Helping out with some AoE heals at Garron the Returned in Veteran Wayrest, for example. There are a few heal heavy fights in VR Dungeons that might be tricky to solo heal for someone that's not fully geared and leveled.

There aren't any set rules when it comes to roles. As long as you finish the dungeon. Done a lot VR dungeons with unconventional set-ups, that still worked out somehow.

Inversus

Anastasia wrote: »

---

Good points Inversus.

I find that hard to believe though>>> " I've never seen a healer without a resto staff."<<<<<<

Have you stood by the gates where the line is forming during these last several weeks from players (*many of whom are NOT MMO veterans) who are now sailing up through the nerfed Vet content on their happy lil' solo PvE paths? If you haven't, you WILL.

Well I've seen people who use templar heals but then use another weapon, when doing general pve - but I mean I've never seen a dedicated healer w/o a resto staff, ie a healer in a dungeon
Then again, I'm usually the healer in dungeons, so it's not that surprising that I don't see many...

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

Not if the group is used to Templar healing (which very few are). Templar ground heal is pretty efficient if people will stand/ move around in it. People soloing in groups will tend not to be healed.

Spamming the big emergency heal will OOM you, but if you are spamming it, you are dumb or your group is.

I do not own a stick (of either type) or a dress.

I have healed all VR dungeons except CoH with a heavy armor temp. Not so much with PUGs, where I'll usually tank. Healing a herd of cats that only know about staff spam healing, and very little about grouping in general does not appeal to me.

Yes, temps could use more mana regen. I often need 20 secs between fights to get back to full, so we don't sprint the dungeons. But You can heal non-idiots with just Temp heals.

I'm sure it's viable - although I believe more difficult - to heal without a resto staff, but from the sounds of it the healer in question in this thread is most likely not the most proficient of dungeon divers
Although at the same time, if you're a dedicated healer, there's not really any point using any weapon but the resto staff imo - why pass up on the healing passives/spells when they're available

zgrssd

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

zgrssd wrote: »

Inversus wrote: »

TeraAngelos wrote: »

The healer claimed she'd been stunned and was unable to heal. She had no idea that the game had a stun break.

She seems inexperienced then, which may have been the issue

V12 and "inexperienced with role" just don't belong into the same sentence.

It is too unlikely that this player has never seen another templar healer, never having been comented on about a templar only healing or never read a discussion about healing as templer in the 48 normal + 12 Vet Levels you need to get to there.
That is why I would have asumed this to be either a greifing attempt or somebody who really should have stayed out of Veteran dungeons.
I don't mind being first time to dungeon, but failing at fundemantals on this level is just acceptable behavior in endgame. If they want to start learning by wiping that late, they should really not waste my time while doing so. Vet dungeosn are hard enough without one player sabotaging the whole effort.

Inversus wrote: »

TeraAngelos wrote: »

Also, she seemed to be using exclusively, or almost exclusively, Templar healing skills rather than resto staff healing skills.

As a sorc healer I can't really comment on this, but usually templar healers also use resto staff

As a general rule, resto staff heals are energy efficient.
Nothing is better at burst healing then the Templar skills (and he has the only pure healing ultimate), but for everyday PvE using resto staff is the way to go. It just offers the superior mana/health ratio via it's HoT's. And it still has an emergency heal (the shield).
Templar healing skills exclusively will result in one thing and one thing only:
Out of mana.

Not if the group is used to Templar healing (which very few are). Templar ground heal is pretty efficient if people will stand/ move around in it. People soloing in groups will tend not to be healed.

Spamming the big emergency heal will OOM you, but if you are spamming it, you are dumb or your group is.

I do not own a stick (of either type) or a dress.

I have healed all VR dungeons except CoH with a heavy armor temp. Not so much with PUGs, where I'll usually tank. Healing a herd of cats that only know about staff spam healing, and very little about grouping in general does not appeal to me.

Yes, temps could use more mana regen. I often need 20 secs between fights to get back to full, so we don't sprint the dungeons. But You can heal non-idiots with just Temp heals.

I can understand why you choose a more versatile build (tank + healing) and it can certainly work with well working groups.

Personally I would avoid that, as it makes DPS and tanks life's that much harder. And the healers life too.
And I don't like to add extra hardness to the game, it is hard enough already.

Definitely not something for PuG's, but this healer was in a PuG.

Inversus wrote: »

[...]Although it could be someone who gave their acc away to a friend or for money or something like that, resulting in a new player at endgame - who knows

If they don't know the role already, they should never have queued for endgame to begin with.
I dislike queueing without basic knowledge of how to play your role as much as trolling. I consider it a form of greiving. It is just unacceptable for me.

At the same time I don't mind giving basic rule guides or boss tactics at all. I actually got quite good at that.

traigusb14_ESO2

Inversus wrote: »

Anastasia wrote: »

---

Good points Inversus.

I find that hard to believe though>>> " I've never seen a healer without a resto staff."<<<<<<

Have you stood by the gates where the line is forming during these last several weeks from players (*many of whom are NOT MMO veterans) who are now sailing up through the nerfed Vet content on their happy lil' solo PvE paths? If you haven't, you WILL.

Well I've seen people who use templar heals but then use another weapon, when doing general pve - but I mean I've never seen a dedicated healer w/o a resto staff, ie a healer in a dungeon
Then again, I'm usually the healer in dungeons, so it's not that surprising that I don't see many...

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

Not if the group is used to Templar healing (which very few are). Templar ground heal is pretty efficient if people will stand/ move around in it. People soloing in groups will tend not to be healed.

Spamming the big emergency heal will OOM you, but if you are spamming it, you are dumb or your group is.

I do not own a stick (of either type) or a dress.

I have healed all VR dungeons except CoH with a heavy armor temp. Not so much with PUGs, where I'll usually tank. Healing a herd of cats that only know about staff spam healing, and very little about grouping in general does not appeal to me.

Yes, temps could use more mana regen. I often need 20 secs between fights to get back to full, so we don't sprint the dungeons. But You can heal non-idiots with just Temp heals.

I'm sure it's viable - although I believe more difficult - to heal without a resto staff, but from the sounds of it the healer in question in this thread is most likely not the most proficient of dungeon divers
Although at the same time, if you're a dedicated healer, there's not really any point using any weapon but the resto staff imo - why pass up on the healing passives/spells when they're available

Mostly to make a point (same reason I don't have a dress). People get a very
"can't be done" attitude on MMOs. I don't like FOTM and cookie cutter stuff.

Someone needs to do it if it is ever going to be fixed. If every Temp just gives in puts on a dress and grabs a stick when they heal... it becomes expected, and nobody knows how /if it works without. People are sometimes stunned when I do it. They can't believe it is even possible. (Same happens as a non-DK tank)

Like the crap going on with trials, everyone is a dress and stick. Can they be done without? People say yes, except a boss is a real massive DPS check. Do you need staff and dress to make leaderboards, yes.

So, i'm one of the guys that plays uphill, so someone has an idea how a off-FOTM spec Temp healer actually works ATM. Someday they will work better. For the same reasons I also tank in Heavy armor... go figure.

EDIT: I do have a resto on my Sorc, and it is a lot easier in general to heal bozos.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

zgrssd wrote: »

Two tanks or two healers is one DPS to few.
The tanks job is to take the toughest foes not in CC on himself and redirect thier AoE so they do as little group damage as possible.
The DPS job is to kill the weak foes first (Healers>Summoners>Elemental ranged DPS>Bow ranged DPS>Melee DPS>Boss) so the total group DPS becomes out-healable.
Healers job is to keep group alive.

This was simply a fault of the healer player. What you described is just the worst possible lack of healer skill I can immagine. So much it makes me wonder if that might have been some form of greifing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer#Methods
It sounds like "faking extreme incompetence" case for me.

I cannot believe that person really made it to VR level without being told how to properly heal at least once (and there is a freaking screen hint for CC breakout!).
If I meet a person like this and he does not shows sign of actually wanting to improove I would even consider reporting that person for greifing.
Sorry, but the average MMO player is not that stupid. That is meerely a lie made by the greifers to hide thier intentional sabotage behind "plausible stupidity".
If somebody thinks he can get away with annoying me by that obviously playing dumb, we are going to have an issue.

VR content is hard enough as it is. Don't need people sabotaging me too.

yes... it was griefing... because of course it was.... definitely need to lean on the report button moar.

Stannum

One of my twinks is templar healer with resto/destro 2 bars build. All healing depends on tanks efficiency. When tank is doing well I have enought time/mana to DPS with destro bar while healing\buffing. When tank is doing strange I have to heal lots of burst damage and playing benny hill show to heal every groupmate and evade mobs. This gets mana/stamina down very quickly.

butterfly442

Or...

A group full of nothing but healers.

Soulshine

The issue with all vet dungeons is always the same: all members need to be contributing to DPS. If your healer is ONLY healing and doesn't provide a dps contribution, that can often wipe a group really fast especially if the rest of the group is lower level than the dungeon.

If other members in the group are not doing their part to avoid silly things like not blocking or not getting out of AoE, then the healer sometimes has no time to do anything but heal, in which case it's the group's fault that the balance is out of whack. Having that happen once in a while is one thing; but the whole way is not a good sign. Sometimes some people just assume the healer can heal and should heal everyone through everything so no one bothers to avoid damage. You cannot do that in a vet dungeon and expect it to go well when dps is at stake, especially not if you have a lower level tank and lower level dps in the mix.

A good healer can contribute and should contribute to the dps whenever possible. If all the healer can manage to do is heal in a four man situation, then something is amiss with the group coordination and more communication is needed to avoid that.